Will Paul Martin's NFLD deal blow up govt?

[jonesy]

The sweetheart deal for NFLD and NB may blow up in Martin's face. There is a growing list of provinces making similar demands. The big guy, ON must be worrisome to Martin.

While I don't understand all the implications of tax vs. provincial revenue vs. equalization, this looks like it could get very nasty.

Ralph has been quiet to date.

[Hakan]

That's because the Feds have no jurisdiction over oil on provincial territory while it ultimate jurisdiction over the seas and anything under it.

The wealthier provinces will still make a stink about them paying equalization payments to the two now richer maritime provinces but in the end it's a drop in the bucket.

This will blow over until BC gets into the fray after their provincial election. Until then, the Liberals will be tight lipped all campaign about off shore oil.

[jonesy]

Now PEI wants their tourist revenue exempt from equalization payments.

[Hakan]

I would argue that it's more lame to be cocky about all the wealth we have by sheer fact of being lucky enough to obliviously put our settlements on oil fields. Remember, we were a have not province too dependent on the Feds' money.

[jonesy]

All I'm saying is that Martin has a real headache to deal with now. Right or wrong, the rest of the provinces seem to be set to fight for more dough. If you brother gets an ice cream from dad, then you will want one too. (even if you have more money than him in your piggy bank)

[Mike F]

How about a link to a relevant, current article?

[jonesy]

Originally posted by Mike F@Feb 15 2005, 09:19 PM
How about a link to a relevant, current article?

ok

[Dirty Mr. Clean]

I think this deal is brutal for Canada. Alberta didn't need transfer payments to get where we are now. I agree that the provinces should get 100% of there oil revenues but transfer payments too for possiably 16 years is going to tear this country apart. I can't wait to hear what Quebec, Ontario, and BC have to say about this. Alberta last year was the only province that payed into the transfer payments just shows how flawed the system is. This doesn't force the provinces to inprove things in there provices for good. It is like giving a homeless person money for rent for 8 years and after the 8 years they end up on the street again with no real life change. This is a patch fix not a solution.

I feel the transfer payments in Canada should be abolished.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Dirty Mr. Clean@Feb 15 2005, 10:00 PM
I think this deal is brutal for Canada. Alberta didn't need transfer payments to get where we are now. I agree that the provinces should get 100% of there oil revenues but transfer payments too for possiably 16 years is going to tear this country apart. I can't wait to hear what Quebec, Ontario, and BC have to say about this. Alberta last year was the only province that payed into the transfer payments just shows how flawed the system is. This doesn't force the provinces to inprove things in there provices for good. It is like giving a homeless person money for rent for 8 years and after the 8 years they end up on the street again with no real life change. This is a patch fix not a solution.

I feel the transfer payments in Canada should be abolished.

What if the provinces can't improve things in their provinces for good as compared to the "have" provinces? What if there is a true disparity that will always exist?

Homeless people are an interesting example that you bring up. How about people with chemical imbalances or mental disabilities? Who is to say they can change themselves for good? Obviously that example is quite a bit different from a "normal" person who has chosen not to have a job. Can a province create oil and gas under their land? Of course not.

[Hakan]

Originally posted by Dirty Mr. Clean@Feb 15 2005, 03:00 PM
I think this deal is brutal for Canada. Alberta didn't need transfer payments to get where we are now.

I feel the transfer payments in Canada should be abolished.

Are you joking?

If not this is the most ignorant thing I've read all week.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by Dirty Mr. Clean@Feb 15 2005, 04:00 PM
I think this deal is brutal for Canada. Alberta didn't need transfer payments to get where we are now. I agree that the provinces should get 100% of there oil revenues but transfer payments too for possiably 16 years is going to tear this country apart. I can't wait to hear what Quebec, Ontario, and BC have to say about this. Alberta last year was the only province that payed into the transfer payments just shows how flawed the system is. This doesn't force the provinces to inprove things in there provices for good. It is like giving a homeless person money for rent for 8 years and after the 8 years they end up on the street again with no real life change. This is a patch fix not a solution.

I feel the transfer payments in Canada should be abolished.

On the contrary, Alberta did recieve equalization payments from 1957 to 1964. These equalization payments we collected gave our oil and gas industry a chance to grow before 1964 when we were allowed to keep our oil and gas royalties. Ontario and Alberta are the only 2 'have' provinces at the moment that pay equalization, but I believe Saskatchewan and BC (which was a 'have' province up until a few years ago) are really close.

I would like to see the provinces able to keep more of their own money. Canada is a big, big country so I say let each province keep more of their own money in order to deal with specific problems each province faces. I find it hard to believe Federal Liberals in Ottawa know better than Danny Williams in Newfoundland where money in Newfoundland would be best spent.

At the same time we are all one country though. So I would still support some form of transfer payments in order to level the playing field somewhat as well. We Albertan's like to pat ourselves on the back like we got it figured out when really the herd of dinosaurs that decided to die here millions of years ago deserves most of the credit. Oil-o-saurusrex's decide to move a few hundred kilometers east to chase a turtle or something and suddenly Saskatchewan 'has it all figured out' and we become a 'have-not' province. So I consider Alberta real lucky to have what it has and definitely don't mind having some of it's wealth being sent to other provinces that need it...

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by fotze@Feb 15 2005, 07:32 PM
I don't mind the payments, just be kinda grateful to get them, that's all.

And what the hell are these payments, do we pay on top of income and business tax?# I don;t get it, I don't get a equalization payment bill every year.# They really need to do more on describing what the fata they are and how they work.

Prof in my Poli Sci class on Canada said that 'only 5 people in Canada understand how equalization payments work', refering to the beauracrats who are in charge of the whole formula system thingy. I took that too mean it is insanely complex, though I think it takes into account things like the average income of the populace, the total GDP of the province itself and all that other mumbo jumbo...

EDIT: Because i'm so bored at the moment, I will try and dig up some of my notes on the subject for those who care...

Guess this stuff came from the prof. going off on a tangent about equalization payments as I can't find anything. Hope this stuff isn't testable...