Living in China

[JohnnyB]

I occasionally find myself feeling a little annoyed at the ignorance and stereotypes that come up regarding life in China while I'm dabbling on CP. I can understand that a lot of people know very little about what China is like, and that there is a lot of negative press regarding the country that gets used in forming people's beliefs. A lot of that press may be justified, but it's also clear that a good number of people just don't know that much about the country.

Now, I can't claim to be a China expert, but I have been living here for a few years, I speak Chinese and I have tried to understand where I'm at. Also, I know that there are other posters on the board who have lived in China and would have their own info to share, so I decided to start this thread as a place where people can ask questions about what life in China is like and get some perspectives from inside the country.

So, what do you want to know about living in China? Let's clear up some of the ignorance and stereotypes.

EDIT: I realize looking at the time now that I need to wake up in about 4 hours, so I won't get to answers immediately, but I'll get to them when I'm back on CP tomorrow in nobody else has covered them first.

[FlamesAddiction]

Are you Chinese, Chinese-Canadian, or a Canadian ex-pat of a different ethnic lineage living in China? I just want to know where your perspective is coming from.

My wife's brother spent some time there and he loved some things and hated others. He said manners (at least the kind he is used to in Canada) went out the window. He said he also felt that he was treated with a different standard because he was a foreigner (like he was expected to let people cut in front of him in lines, or move out of the way for locals in public areas).

To be honest, my impression of China is tainted by knowledge of Chinatown in Vancouver... which is pretty dirty and crowded. At the same time, you rarely ever see a Chinese beggar or panhandler in Canada.

I was watching a show a while ago about a city in northern China near the Russian border where there is actually a Russian minorty in the city and strong Orthodox Christian community and use of the Cyrillic alphabet is common. That kind of surprised me. I wish I could remember the name of the city as it looked really nice... Harbin or something like that....

Edit: yes, it's Harbin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin

[Hack&Lube]

What is the pollution like in China? Are you ever fearful about the foods that you are eating? As part of a Chinese-Canadian family in Canada, I know that we will actually avoid food products from mainland China as much as possible.

[4X4]

Have you ever seen a bar fight that was full-on martial art?

[Phanuthier]

Do you ever feel the sense of communism or living in a dictatorship? Maybe its because in my generation and being a Canadian, I saw floods of people coming to Canada because of the handover of Hong Kong and Macau, so I do wonder how oppressed freedoms are in China.

Oh and I would also like to know what your thoughts are on sanitation of going into the many hole-in-the-wall food stands around China (that I saw when I visited Beijing in the 90's)

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Have you ever seen a bar fight that was full-on martial art?

Have you ever seen a bar fight that was full-on mathletics?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Are you Chinese, Chinese-Canadian, or a Canadian ex-pat of a different ethnic lineage living in China? I just want to know where your perspective is coming from.

I am a Canadian ex-pat of European descent, married into a Shanghainese family. I've lived different kinds of lives here. I have obviously been a part of the expat communities, though it's not my preference as I find many ex-pats self-indulgent, and I have also lived in one homestay for 7 months in Shanghai and another for one month in Taiyuan. Currently I live and work in Changchun, which is in the northeast, in the province sharing a border with North Korea.

My wife's brother spent some time there and he loved some things and hated others. He said manners (at least the kind he is used to in Canada) went out the window. He said he also felt that he was treated with a different standard because he was a foreigner (like he was expected to let people cut in front of him in lines, or move out of the way for locals in public areas).

Yes, manners of the Canadian type will go out. An orderly line is not something you're going to find much of here, though it's not just for foreigners. You've got to be prepared to push a bit to get to the front.

To be honest, my impression of China is tainted by knowledge of Chinatown in Vancouver... which is pretty dirty and crowded. At the same time, you rarely ever see a Chinese beggar or panhandler in Canada.

How dirty and how crowded places are varies a lot by which city you're in. China varies in huge ways from place to place. In a big city such as Shanghai or Beijing, you probably won't find things so dirty, but it will be very crowded. You also won't find so many beggars in these two cities, though you definitely will encounter them. Many of the beggars you will encounter in China have severe deformities. From what I understand, children and adults are sometimes deformed by others who will force them to beg, as people with more deformities will get more money.

I was watching a show a while ago about a city in northern China near the Russian border where there is actually a Russian minorty in the city and strong Orthodox Christian community and use of the Cyrillic alphabet is common. That kind of surprised me. I wish I could remember the name of the city as it looked really nice... Harbin or something like that....

Edit: yes, it's Harbin:

I haven't been to Harbin yet, though it's reasonably close to where I am now. Just a few hours drive north of here. There is an interesting mix of cultures and ethnicities here too. The city is about 20% ethnic Korean, and I've noticed quite a bit of Christian culture in town while I've been here. The Russian population is not great here and I have not noticed the Cyrillic alphabet, but there is a noticeable Russian presence here.

There is a huge cultural diversity across China. Lifestyles, language and people are very different from one side of China to the other.

[GirlySports]

Is it all squat toilets? Have you gotten used to them?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

What is the pollution like in China? Are you ever fearful about the foods that you are eating? As part of a Chinese-Canadian family in Canada, I know that we will actually avoid food products from mainland China as much as possible.

The pollution also varies greatly from place to place. The city in which I live now, which is 6-7 million people, is relatively clean. The sky is clear and blue on a daily basis with little sign of smog. This is despite being China's equivalent of Detroit with a huge amount of auto manufacturing here. There are many large, beautiful parks and streets are all tree-lined. The air is quite fresh, and the city actually reminds me a little of Calgary.

Pollution can be extreme though. I spent one month last year living in Taiyuan, Shanxi province. I understand this to be one of the ten most polluted cities in the world, though the third most polluted in that province. There is coal mining as well as steel and chemical production there. The air quality was terrible on a daily basis, and even on clear days I often couldn't see blue sky if I looked directly up. Chronic health problems there are severe. Nonetheless, it was actually not very difficult living in that level of pollution. I never found myself having difficulty breathing.

Here is a picture of what Taiyuan was like on a normal day:


In the cities like Shanghai or Beijing air quality is clearly a problem, but it is very livable and not really so severe when you consider that a city like Shanghai has around 22 million people. Also, these cities are becoming cleaner and cleaner all the time. The rate of development in these cities is phenomenal, and issues with air quality are often the result of dust from the amount of construction going on.

Regarding the food, I am generally not fearful of what I eat, although I am conscious of the health risks involved. I avoid drinking tap water, though I am aware it used in cooking often and I am conscious of other chemicals in local foods. Many Chinese are very conscious of these problems and take care in their food preparation to reduce dangers as much as possible. Everyone understands that the government agencies in charge of ensuring food safety simply aren't reliable. The consumer must be conscious of what they are consuming.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Have you ever seen a bar fight that was full-on martial art?

Not yet. But I am eagerly awaiting it.

[Suzles]

My best friend lived for 15 years in Hong Kong. They had a very privileged lifestyle and seemed to have very poor attitudes towards the Chinese. All Colonial British and stuffy. I never heard them thank a 'local' - or their staff. I visited once - just hated it. Too many people in too small an area and the live animal markets were deeply distressing.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Do you ever feel the sense of communism or living in a dictatorship? Maybe its because in my generation and being a Canadian, I saw floods of people coming to Canada because of the handover of Hong Kong and Macau, so I do wonder how oppressed freedoms are in China.

The thing is that the presence is reasonably constant, but not something to feel conscious of most of the time. The firewall which censors so much of the internet is certainly annoying, but on a daily basis, dealing with normal matters of daily life, there is no real sense of communism or the dictatorship. If you get into discussing political issues with people, the influence of the dictatorship becomes apparent very quickly as most people don't feel comfortable openly expressing negative views about the government in front of people they are not comfortable with. Still, this is different by generation, and the generations in China are very different from each other. Children of the 80s and 90s are wildly more open than their parents are.

It is phenomenal how effectively China is able to censor the news within the country though. Things that would make world headlines if they happened in a place like Canada will simply go unheard of in China for the effectiveness of the media censorship. It is becoming more and more the place of bloggers to shed light on the dirt that happens within China, which is one of the reasons that the government is so very concerned with media censorship. There is a strong limitation on the use of social networking sites and services. For instance, twitter, facebook and most blogs are blocked on Chinese internet.

Oh and I would also like to know what your thoughts are on sanitation of going into the many hole-in-the-wall food stands around China (that I saw when I visited Beijing in the 90's)

Doesn't bother me at all. I eat at them all the time and I don't think I've ever gotten sick. Also, I just don't have that much faith that bigger, fancier restaurants are really that clean anyways.

[Shazam]

That city's so smoggy, even a picture of it doesn't show up!

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Is it all squat toilets? Have you gotten used to them?

Public toilets will generally be squatters, but in the most developed cities there are more and more Western toilets and they are becoming quite common in shopping malls, restaurants and other places where people are spending more money and want things to be a little more upscale. The squatters are not so bad though. As long as they're clean, they feel more sanitary than Western toilets.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Shazam

That city's so smoggy, even a picture of it doesn't show up!

Fixed, I think.

[HelloHockeyFans]

I have never been a resident of China, but I have lived there for over a month at a time while on vacation and during these vacations, spent time living in both the more "Westernized" life (i.e. hotels, private condos, etc.) as well as spending time in my family's village.

I'm Canadian, parents were born and raised in China and Hong Kong.

My experience there was all positive, but only because I already knew what to expect through talks with friends who live and work in China. I can see how people are a little put back if they visit without any knowledge of what to expect.

Some random thoughts:

- avoid public washrooms if cleanliness and privacy are things you value. Public washrooms consist of "stalls" separated by short dividers that when squatting, your head and shoulders are higher than the divider. These "stalls" have no doors. I walked in and walked back out... did all my business in hotel washrooms.

- people drive like absolute maniacs there. The friend who took us in while we visited drove us around most of the time and literally pulled up on to the sidewalk and parked her car when we visited the above public washroom. This friend is actually from Canada as well... she's adapted to their way of doing things.

- There's an extreme contrast between the rich and the poor in China. The rich are ridiculously rich, while the poor are extremely poor. The friend we stayed with is doing well for herself. 1500+ square foot, 2-floor condo. When visiting some older family, they still lived in slightly modified shacks that they've been living in for generations now. No complaining from them though - they actually prefer the "old way" over the new.

- If you are there for business, be prepared to spend more time drinking and eating than actually conducting business. This is the way big business is done in China - there's a time for business talk and there's a time for business socializing. In China, more time seems to be spent doing the later. And we're not talking dinner and a few drinks, we're talking late night drinking until the sun rises. Then you do it again the next night... and the next, etc.

- Because my ethnicity is Chinese AND I speak mandarin and cantonese, I was well received by the locals there. Add in the fact that I communicate fluently in English as well, and people with a similar background as myself are highly valued in China. Lots of money to be made there for those willing to relocate.

- Some of my other friends were Chinese but couldn't speak Chinese. They were teased in a friendly way, but there's always a little truth in "jokes".

- Non-Chinese, from my perspective any way, are generally well received in developed China. Maybe for the wrong reasons, because the locals see money in foreigners (regardless of skin colour), but in developed China I think there's a strong eagerness by locals to learn and because of this, are respectful, keen and friendly.

- Bars/clubs are open to sunrise. China is a great place to party. Fun fact that we discovered: You can go to a club, get a table and buy bottles for the night, and if you don't finish your bottle that night, they will KEEP IT FOR YOU for the next time you come in!! Coat check style. Partying is very cheap in China... very cheap. Watch out for imitation alcohol. We've all heard about fake brand names that China is famous for... well, they also have fake alcohol.

- If you are adventurous with what you eat (i.e. you don't scrunch your nose in disgust about eating things like Vietnamese noodles in Canada with tripe in it), then there's a lot of great food to be had. I'll eat anything and don't see a difference between tripe and sausages that are ground from spare animal parts, so I tried everything there and loved most of it. If you love spicy food, visit Sichuan. Extremely spicy, but delicious food.

- Overall an excellent place for a vacation because you do get to see both sides of the coin if you want to see a fully developed megacity (like Shanghai) or ancient traditional sceneries like the Great Wall/Forbidden City. My friend who is from New York went with us on one trip and said Shanghai's skyline kicks New York's easily.

Sometimes, it seems like people are afraid of going to China because of its communist government, but to be honest, I've never been afraid there and didn't notice much of a difference. Mind you, I didn't spend any time on the internet, watching TV or listening to the radio, because well, I wasn't going to waste my time doing those things while on vacation. I went to eat great food, party and learn more about my roots and was satisfied in every way. I do get the feeling though that actually living there day to day would be very different in terms of the censoring the government imposes... something I'd likely hate. The key thing about visiting China and any where in the world actually, is to keep in mind that you are visiting a different country where things are likely done differently from where you come from... so have an open mind and realize that maybe things aren't done as a slight to you, but rather, are just the way things are done wherever you might be.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Suzles

My best friend lived for 15 years in Hong Kong. They had a very privileged lifestyle and seemed to have very poor attitudes towards the Chinese. All Colonial British and stuffy. I never heard them thank a 'local' - or their staff. I visited once - just hated it. Too many people in too small an area and the live animal markets were deeply distressing.

Expat culture can become quite sick from what I've seen. Personally I try to avoid the general expat community as I find it hard to relate to a lot of people in it and I really dislike the detachment from local culture.

[Byrns]

How much did you have to shell out to your wife's parents to marry her? Do you guys need to send money back to them?

I have a Chinese wife too so I know your pain.

[JohnnyB]

I am going to bed, but I'll post more and answer any questions I can tomorrow.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Byrns

How much did you have to shell out to your wife's parents to marry her? Do you guys need to send money back to them?

I have a Chinese wife too so I know your pain.

Last one for tonight.

I haven't had to shell out anything to my wife's parents to marry her, though we do give her parents money every month for right now. Part of that is helping to pay a mortgage on an apartment they bought which is actually in my wife's name.

The communication issues and differences in relationship styles between cultures can cause major issues though. I often think we are coming at things from totally different worlds, and a lot of patience is absolutely necessary to maintain good family relations.

On the other hand, the Chinese family is one of the most wonderful things about the culture. Family is very close and is really the center of life. Lots of dinners together, feeling very close and always emphasis on family first. There is a closeness and warmth in Chinese family culture that feels very human.