Downs Syndrome child used as homocide bomber

[Cowperson]

Iraq’s interior minister said Monday that insurgents used a handicapped child as one of the suicide bombers who launched attacks on election day.

Falah al-Naqib told reporters in Baghdad that 38 attacks were carried out on polling stations in Iraq on Sunday and that one of the suicide bombings was carried out by a disabled child.

“A handicapped child was used to carry out a suicide attack on a polling site,” al-Naqib said. “This is an indication of what horrific actions they are carrying out.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6889106/

Cowperson

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Well I guess this just shows the humanity of these murderers. Something tells me this kid didn't do it because of an intense hatred of the United States. Hiring a handicapped child is truely pathetic, and not suprising considering we are dealing with the scum of the earth here.

[transplant99]

Wow.

Hard to comprehend.

[Cowperson]

A mentally handicapped boy was used as a homicide bomber by Palestinian militants last year . . . . but he lived.

Cowperson

[Mike F]

You have to wonder if this is a sign that they might be running short of people willing to be suicide bombers on ideological grounds, or whether it was just a crime of opportunity.

[ratech]

A child is a child. It makes no difference if they are handicapped or not. Using kids, any kid in a grown up game is beyond reprehensible.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Mike F@Jan 31 2005, 05:33 PM
You have to wonder if this is a sign that they might be running short of people willing to be suicide bombers on ideological grounds, or whether it was just a crime of opportunity.

I was just perusing this lengthy, lengthy Newsweek article on the insurgency which might provide some answers for you:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6885867/site/newsweek/

Cowperson

[BaronInEdmonton]

Theoretical Question:

Whats the difference between using a child bomber and killing children (or targeting Children) with suicide bombers?

Both are just as disgusting to me.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by BaronInEdmonton@Jan 31 2005, 06:14 PM
Theoretical Question:

Whats the difference between using a child bomber and killing children (or targeting Children) with suicide bombers?

Both are just as disgusting to me.

Fantastic question. Is it more reprehensible to strap a child w/ a bomb, or bomb the kid from a plane or tank? Is 'collateral damage' as heinous as outright murder? Does it make a difference if you 'know' the person or not before you waste them?

[BaronInEdmonton]

Great reply.

I think the difference is what you target. For example did you miss when you aimed for the airport and his a residential. Or did you aim for the commuter bus. But the point is well taken.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by BaronInEdmonton@Jan 31 2005, 06:47 PM
Great reply.

I think the difference is what you target. For example did you miss when you aimed for the airport and his a residential. Or did you aim for the commuter bus. But the point is well taken.

Yeah, the 'intent' has always been a big factor, supposedly. If you 'mean' to kill civilians, that's worse than if you knew they were likely to be killed, but were not the 'main' target of attack.

Basically, terrorists target civilians because they're easy to go after. The US doesn't target them, but still manages to kill a whack of them. Is it worse to target civilians than to waste them by attrition? Or is it the same?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Jan 31 2005, 03:14 PM
Well I guess this just shows the humanity of these murderers. Something tells me this kid didn't do it because of an intense hatred of the United States. Hiring a handicapped child is truely pathetic, and not suprising considering we are dealing with the scum of the earth here.

This might surprise you, but people with Down's actually have complex human emotion and are capable of love and hate.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Jan 31 2005, 08:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Jan 31 2005, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Jan 31 2005, 03:14 PM
Well I guess this just shows the humanity of these murderers. Something tells me this kid didn't do it because of an intense hatred of the United States. Hiring a handicapped child is truely pathetic, and not suprising considering we are dealing with the scum of the earth here.

This might surprise you, but people with Down's actually have complex human emotion and are capable of love and hate.[/b][/quote]
I'm pretty sure the implication is that a kid w/ Downs is probably not capable of making an 'informed' decision as to commit the suicide bombing or not. I don't think this was a shot at Downs sufferers, but rather the belief that this kid probably had 100% outside motivation to commit the act.

Do you think a Down's child (with complex human emotion capable of love and hate) would come up with the idea of suicide bombing by themselves? Even understand what suicide bombing is, let alone death? Did the kid understand the geopolitics of his decision? Doubtful.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Jan 31 2005, 08:22 PM
Do you think a Down's child (with complex human emotion capable of love and hate) would come up with the idea of suicide bombing by themselves? Even understand what suicide bombing is, let alone death? Did the kid understand the geopolitics of his decision? Doubtful.

I think it's likely that a person with Down's knows the difference between right and wrong, and also knows that suicide bombers are revered in their circles as martyrs. Also, who knows what kind of suffering he's witnessed because of the war. Based on that, it is not unlikely that the child had some personal motive for carrying out the act. It's not right to coherse a child to anything but I see a lot of jumping to conclusions and displays of preconceived notions about handicapped people here.

Along another line, the U.S. has been experimenting using dolphins as living bombs and for survelleince purposes in the Persian Gulf. Dolphins are also capable of heightened emotion, have little knowledge of geopolitics, and cannot refuse service... but unlike a human - likely does not know the difference between right and wrong. So is that just as bad (or worse)?

[Cowperson]

Basically, terrorists target civilians because they're easy to go after.

That's the only reason?

Cowperson

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Jan 31 2005, 09:01 PM
Basically, terrorists target civilians because they're easy to go after.

That's the only reason?

Cowperson

Did I say it was?

You think if an insurgent had the exact same shot at an Iraqi civilian and US soldier, with equally little chance of getting caught, that they would target the civilian?

I'm pretty sure a major factor in civilian attacks by terrorists is simply because they're much easier targets. I'm sure US and Israeli soldiers are _always_ on the top of the idealized hit list, but with body armour and armoured vehicles, its just easier to go after their wards.

Obviously there is a 'fear inspiration' aspect to this, but this is to effect US support amongst the population... not because the insurgents hate their fellow Iraqis.

You disagree?

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Jan 31 2005, 09:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Jan 31 2005, 09:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Jan 31 2005, 09:01 PM
Basically, terrorists target civilians because they're easy to go after.

That's the only reason?

Cowperson

Did I say it was?

[/b][/quote]
Its the only one you gave.

You think if an insurgent had the exact same shot at an Iraqi civilian and US soldier, with equally little chance of getting caught, that they would target the civilian?

Yep. Because that's exactly what they've been doing. Its an effective tactic too. And its obviously the primary tactic right now.

Obviously there is a 'fear inspiration' aspect to this, but this is to effect US support amongst the population... not because the insurgents hate their fellow Iraqis.

Yeah, you can certainly tell from those messages of "we'll kill anyone who votes" that they love their fellow civilians.

Cowperson

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Jan 31 2005, 01:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Jan 31 2005, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Jan 31 2005, 03:14 PM
Well I guess this just shows the humanity of these murderers. Something tells me this kid didn't do it because of an intense hatred of the United States. Hiring a handicapped child is truely pathetic, and not suprising considering we are dealing with the scum of the earth here.

This might surprise you, but people with Down's actually have complex human emotion and are capable of love and hate. [/b][/quote]
It might suprise you but I work with children who have serious mental disabilities and that includes downs syndrome, and let me just say this, I have yet to meet one child who has shown anything but love and caring to every single person that they have met, and they are by far some of the nicest children that I have ever and i mean ever met. there is no doubt in my mind that there are very smart children with down syndrome, however there is a great deal of doubt in my mind that a child with down syndrome would have the mental capabilities to decide to strap an explosive device to their waist, go into a public place, and detonate said explosive device because of their hatred for the american occupation of iraq. While they are very special children and i respect each one of them more than I respect most people, there is no doubt in my mind that the ***holes that did this targetted him because he had a mental disability, and were able to use that disability to their advantage.

The mental compacity really isn't there to make a decision to kill themselves, and this is coming from someone who volunteers on a regular basis for the past 3-4 years with children with a variety of disabilities.

I know that they know the difference between right and wrong, but I don't think they know that they should build an explosive device, strap an explosive device to themselves, and target a group of people at a certain time. These cowards that did this likely targeted this child because of him being disabled, and nothing can change that opinion.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Jan 31 2005, 08:40 PM
I think it's likely that a person with Down's knows the difference between right and wrong, and also knows that suicide bombers are revered in their circles as martyrs.# Also, who knows what kind of suffering he's witnessed because of the war.# Based on that, it is not unlikely that the child had some personal motive for carrying out the act.# It's not right to coherse a child to anything but I see a lot of jumping to conclusions and displays of preconceived notions about handicapped people here.

Along another line, the U.S. has been experimenting using dolphins as living bombs and for survelleince purposes in the Persian Gulf.# Dolphins are also capable of heightened emotion, have little knowledge of geopolitics, and cannot refuse service... but unlike a human - likely does not know the difference between right and wrong.# So is that just as bad (or worse)?

Well, if you think the Down's kid was in on the bombing, that's cool... I'm inclined to think he was coerced, but obviously its a matter of opinoin.

As for Dolphins, I don't know. I do know the Soviets during WWII used dogs as living land mines to take out German tanks. If the militaries of the world want to use and abuse animals, that's the way it is I suppose. I'll generally tend to care more about blown up people than dogs or dolphins, but I guess I'm biased towards humans when it comes to living and dying.

I also don't think I can equate using an unknowing human bomb to using unkowing animals in dangerous jobs. I would assume that 'human rights' are a different topic entirely from 'animal rights'.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Jan 31 2005, 09:27 PM
As for Dolphins, I don't know. I do know the Soviets during WWII used dogs as living land mines to take out German tanks. If the militaries of the world want to use and abuse animals, that's the way it is I suppose. I'll generally tend to care more about blown up people than dogs or dolphins, but I guess I'm biased towards humans when it comes to living and dying.

I don't draw the line strictly between animal and human. I see it more as a line between creatures that have heightened senses of emotion, and those that don't. Many biologist agree that primates and dolphins have emotional capabilites on par with humans.