Lawn Advice: Please

[killer_carlson]

We've been in the house a couple of years now. Older house on a really old lot.

Aerated two falls ago, last spring and last fall.
Top dressed two years ago with a soil/sand mixture.
Power Raked last fall (it was disgusting how much dead grass came up).

I think the people we bought it from fertilized the crap out of it so it looked good while showing, and then never put another drop of water on it from May through until August 15 when we bought. Never been able to get it green no matter how much water I put on it.

Parts of it did not take the top dressing very well at all as it seemed to finish any blade of grass that wasn't 100% healthy.

In any event, I think that now that the top dressing has made its way through to the roots, now that the power rake was done, and that a good aerating was done as described above, it is time to have a go at this stuff.

I bought some grass seed to over-seed as well as some fertilizer. I also bought a hand held aerator (which will be a lot of work but a good workout as well as cheaper in the long run).

So the advice I'm looking for is this:

What order or timelines should I employ with respect to when I fertilize, overseed and aerate this spring?

Should I aerate tonight, overseed and fertilize tomorrow? Or should I aerate today, wait a month to overseed and fertilize?

What do you advise or wise and powerful CP knowledge base.

(PS, my wife is giving me grief for relying on CP for things like this so it will really play well in my household if the advice given actually works....)

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

(PS, my wife is giving me grief for relying on CP for things like this so it will really play well in my household if the advice given actually works....)

Don't know about the lawn, but to me, you've got bigger problems right now...

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Don't know about the lawn, but to me, you've got bigger problems right now...

Agreed. My wife has come to accept that the answers to obscure how-to questions can generally be answered on CP

[Jedi Ninja]

OK, I'm not a lawn guru, but will pipe in as no one else has tried to help you yet.

Sounds like you've tried a lot of good stuff already.

One thing I'd check is how much topsoil you actually have. Get a spade and take a nice sized core sample. You should have at least 6 inches of black stuff. If you have less, then you will have to water frequently to stay green. (I have an area in my lawn where the builder gave me only about 3" of soil plus it's on a slope, so it's always brown if I don't water heavily.)

Secondly, get a soil test kit from Sunnyside and test your soil, or get it professionally tested. You may find that something is off, maybe the lawn has been under or over fertilized. This may help you with choice of fertilizer. I have heard some people recommend trying a new-lawn fertilizer for a while as they are lighter in the salts and have more phosphorous for stimulating root growth.

[Shazam]

Aerate and overseed. Make sure to rake in the seed and water thoroughly.

I'm not sure what your "soil/sand" mixture was supposed to accomplish. Sand is useless as a top dressing, and soil, if you mean humus, does nothing as well. The only useful top dressing is compost.

What fertilizer did you purchase? Exact name please.

[redforever]

Also? if this is a really "old" lot, do you have a lot of shade trees? because if you have a lot of shade, you should not be using the standard generic varieties of grass seed.

[killer_carlson]

The sand wasn't there for nutrients, it was there for drainage. I used a soil/sand mixture because I wanted better drainage and to reduce the compaction of high traffic areas. Where I wanted the better drainage and it was coupled with a high traffic area, it got more sand, otherwise it got more soil. Usually it was 2/3 soil, 1/3 sand, but at times it was 4/5 soil and 1/5 sand, or 50/50 (high traffic with wanting drainage).

I bought Scotts Ecolawn fertilizer mixture.

Shade is more on one side of the lot due to the neighbour's trees. I bought a Sun and Shade mixture of grass seed.

I think I'll go rake again today then aerate and fertilize. Grass seed then in 2 weeks.

[Buckwheat's barber]

As for your overseeing, get a soil test done first and foremost as well as looking at a core sample. This will help to determine the cause(s) for the problems you are having with the grass that is already established. What is keeping your present grass from looking healthy will in all likelihood prevent the success of your turf renovation.

Ideally you would want to overseed during the late summer – last week of August to around Labour Day, when competition with weeds is of little concern. Regardless of the season (spring or late summer) overseed using the following procedure should give you fairly good success

Rake or power-rake the area(s) to remove debris and to lift the turf leaves.

Aerate twice but ideally 3x, making the 2nd pattern 90 degrees to the 1st, and the 3rd, 45 degrees to the 2nd

Overseed at double the recommended rate of normal seeding, preferably after aerating and certainly before the holes “heal” - seed to soil contact is the key to the over-seeding success.

Fertilize with a “Starter” fertilizer (low nitrogen with higher phosphorus) at the recommended rate

Light water 2 to 3x a day until germination (about a week), then steadily increase amount of water, but with fewer applications



Possible reasons for your lawn’s inability to turn green;

When sand is used in topdressing, there are some considerations to problems that may occur.

Sand decreases microbial activity for thatch and organic decomposition. This is particularly notable when combined with the over-fertilization you suspect the previous owners applied. In short, an excessive thatch layer may have developed

Excessive nutrient leaching, especially nitrogen and potassium

Susceptibility to layering when finer materials such as soil is included with the sand

Although not very likely, there is the possibility of iron deficiency in the soil. When sand is present in the topdressing material, the ph level is increased which in turn decreases the iron availability in the soil. High nitrogen levels (previous owner’s application?) also decreases iron availability.

Hope this helps

[ricoFlame]

i have several years in turf managament, and i would just get a good solid metal rake and scratch the surface really well. then overseed and fert. gotta keep the seed damp for the first couple days. Make sure the seed has a good component of rye grass in it as it is typically the first to germinate, keeping the good seed in place long enough to take hold.

good luck!

[Buckwheat's barber]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

i have several years in turf managament, and i would just get a good solid metal rake and scratch the surface really well. then overseed and fert. gotta keep the seed damp for the first couple days. Make sure the seed has a good component of rye grass in it as it is typically the first to germinate, keeping the good seed in place long enough to take hold.

good luck!

As I understand Killer's post, he will be overseeding on established turf If this is in fact the case, there really is no need for a nurse grass. A kentucky/fescue mixture, or kentucky alone should suffice

[Jedi Ninja]

Now to post my own question. I have vole damage in my lawn (they were overwintering under the snow banks and ate tracks through the top level of turf.) I have already raked out a lot of dead material. So, obviously I need to top dress and overseed this, but when can I do it? I have read that topdressing should not be done while the grass is dormant, so should I wait? Or should I patch and seed the dead tracks now and then topdress the whole area again later?

How much does power raking cost?

Thanks.

[killer_carlson]

I rented a power rake from Home Depot for around 120 bucks for the day. I split it with my buddy.

I had never seen it done before so I always thought that a little elbow grease and a sturdy rake was the same thing. Man, was I wrong.

It has an engine and isn't terribly difficult to operate. Basically it is like a spinning wheel with little sticks on it. It pulls up all the thatch. I pulled 6 or 7 bags from my front lawn alone. It was gross at just how much came up, but at the same time, I can already see the difference this spring. I highly recommend it and doing it yourself so you can see the effects and how it would help. Talk to some of your neigbours and see if you can split the cost.

It is heavy though, so you'll need someone to give you a hand lifting it.

[RougeUnderoos]

I don't know if this changes anything in caring for your lawn (I think it might), but according to the Weather Network, we are in for more snow this week and a low of -5.

[jammies]

Lawn = you kids get off of mine!

If you don't base your lawncare system around this foundation, I'm afraid all the "Professor Greenthumb" talk above won't help you, my friend.

[Buckwheat's barber]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

Now to post my own question. I have vole damage in my lawn (they were overwintering under the snow banks and ate tracks through the top level of turf.) I have already raked out a lot of dead material. So, obviously I need to top dress and overseed this, but when can I do it? I have read that topdressing should not be done while the grass is dormant, so should I wait? Or should I patch and seed the dead tracks now and then topdress the whole area again later?

How much does power raking cost?

Thanks.

If the damage to the turf is only to the surface, then the grass should recover quite easily.

A note about power-raking: When renting a power-rake, keep in mind that the height of the tines are set to the previous renter's choice (I would be willing to bet a house and a boat that the height is rarely changed more than a half dozen times in a rental season). So before you start-and-go, you should set the height to what you are trying to accomplish - just raking or removing thatch. By looking at a cross section of a core, you'll be able to determine if any thatch should be removed. About a half inch of thatch is what you should see

[fredr123]

When is the best time to power rake? What about aerating? Which do you do first?

Our lawn is about two years old and we filled in a bunch of spots with sod last spring that seem to be taking pretty well. The last bit of snow just melted from our lawn last week and most of it is no longer reminiscent of muskeg. Time to do any of the above or is it too late?