Alleged Ponzi co-accused vows to clear his name

[macker]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Exclusi...203/story.html

I find it hard to believe he would come back to face charges but maybe he was reading this http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...915?hub=Canada
Cue the music....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY0M2muTrdA

Anybody with a law back ground know how that works or if it is in his favor to come back and face charges sooner than later...it must be or maybe he really is innocent.....looks like a trustworthy guy

[VladtheImpaler]

What I don't get is why these guys who operate fraudulent schemes do not prepare for the moment when they are inevitably found out. Personally, I would have a few million stashed away in some place like Belorussia, and good luck ever finding me. If you are clever enough to steal $400M, one would think you'd be clever enough to prepare your getaway.

[Slava]

What I don't understand is how these guys raise $400m in the first place. With all of the totally legitimate areas for people to invest in, and the number of those legitimate businesses that would love to have an additional $400m it seems mind-boggling that people fall for these anymore!

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Slava

What I don't understand is how these guys raise $400m in the first place. With all of the totally legitimate areas for people to invest in, and the number of those legitimate businesses that would love to have an additional $400m it seems mind-boggling that people fall for these anymore!

They present themselves as legitimate businesses, obviously.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Slava

What I don't understand is how these guys raise $400m in the first place. With all of the totally legitimate areas for people to invest in, and the number of those legitimate businesses that would love to have an additional $400m it seems mind-boggling that people fall for these anymore!

Exactly, which is why I have zero sympathy for the victims. If you are too greedy and too stupid to do some basic homework before handing over a cheque for $400,000... tough luck.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

What I don't understand is how these guys raise $400m in the first place. With all of the totally legitimate areas for people to invest in, and the number of those legitimate businesses that would love to have an additional $400m it seems mind-boggling that people fall for these anymore!

If you are in a desperate situation, which investment would you choose? The one with the 6% return, or the one with the 25% return? These schemes play on greed, the appearance of being trustworthy and desperation to succeed, often by showing early positive returns that hook people to invest more.

[Cowperson]

I agree that the lack of an exit strategy for the common embezzler remains one of the more puzzling aspects of the entire criminal mind thing.

Do they even know which countries don't have extradition treaties with Canada?

Most wouldn't.

I like it that these guys went BIG in terms of the amounts. Why embezzle $10,000 and go to jail for 10 years? How stupid is that? No, if you're going into the criminal landscape, go large or go home. Raise $400 million!!! But why wait around and get caught?

As to why people give them money, it's pure greed. Generally, you should not feel sorry for the victims, not even the little old ladies or the lady who committed suicide.

In this case though, I have read some of the personal stories where accountants were recommending this scheme to clients and yes, I do feel sorry for those victims because they relied on a person of trust and influence who should have known better or was part of it. Those accountants will also, of course, be liable for damages.

Cowperson

[Slava]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Exactly, which is why I have zero sympathy for the victims. If you are too greedy and too stupid to do some basic homework before handing over a cheque for $400,000... tough luck.

I still feel bad for the individual investors for the most part. I have no sympathy for the guys who think that they have found something to invest in that is so much smarter than everyone else who get burned; however the average investor who just has the money to invest and has no way of knowing better is who I feel bad for. Then again they ought to have someone working on their behalf that they can trust.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

What I don't understand is how these guys raise $400m in the first place. With all of the totally legitimate areas for people to invest in, and the number of those legitimate businesses that would love to have an additional $400m it seems mind-boggling that people fall for these anymore!

They make themselves appear as a legit business. They used financial education seminars to persuade investors to avoid banks in favour of offshore mining investments.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Slava

What I don't understand is how these guys raise $400m in the first place. With all of the totally legitimate areas for people to invest in, and the number of those legitimate businesses that would love to have an additional $400m it seems mind-boggling that people fall for these anymore!

GREED

We've come across a few schemes that, allegedly, involved fraudulent investments and the common denominator among all the victims was the sound of the cash register's ka-ching drowning out that little voice that kept saying "if it sounds too good to be true..."

[macker]

Originally Posted by Slava

What I don't understand is how these guys raise $400m in the first place. With all of the totally legitimate areas for people to invest in, and the number of those legitimate businesses that would love to have an additional $400m it seems mind-boggling that people fall for these anymore!

True enough! He was offering 3-5% returns per month. I saw an ad on a bus the other day offering 24% iirc I think it was Profunds or something like that. After Shire and Concrete etc. etc. hopefully the general public is getting the due diligence message. This Sorenson very well could be a sociopath but some of those who invested with him should have known better or if they didn't I am very surprised they were able qualify for his minimum investment.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Exactly, which is why I have zero sympathy for the victims. If you are too greedy and too stupid to do some basic homework before handing over a cheque for $400,000... tough luck.

Edna Coulic, unable to see a future outside a million-dollar pit of debt and despair, lost her life.

"She felt at that point she was a disgrace, she was a loser, and she could never regain her place in life -- she couldn't face people. It was that hard, and she couldn't see any other way out," said Gloria Lozinski.

Lozinski repeatedly tried to talk her sister out of the depression which overwhelmed her, once she learned her money had been lost to a vast Ponzi scheme, but she says the formerly "outgoing and vibrant" Edna never recovered. "She went from enjoying life, loving her life, to that realization she had lost everything," said Lozinski.

In October of last year, Edna killed herself.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20...30011-sun.html

[macker]

Originally Posted by Dion

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20...30011-sun.html

Cause It's a bitter sweet symphony this life,
Trying to make ends meet, your a slave to money then you die

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If you are in a desperate situation, which investment would you choose? The one with the 6% return, or the one with the 25% return? These schemes play on greed, the appearance of being trustworthy and desperation to succeed, often by showing early positive returns that hook people to invest more.

If you're borrowing money to invest you're playing a really dangerous game. If you are investing your own money, well, you've got to be prepared for the worst-case scenario: losing it all.

[troutman]

Canada's Extradition treaties:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=512566

Honduras does not have a treaty with Canada.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Dion

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20...30011-sun.html

That's too bad, obviously, but if it's too good to be true, it is.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by troutman

Canada's Extradition treaties:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=512566

Honduras does not have a treaty with Canada.

Well, I guess that makes Mr. Sorensen an idiot for turning up.

[macker]

Originally Posted by troutman

Canada's Extradition treaties:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=512566

Honduras does not have a treaty with Canada.

Thats the part I just don't get. Why would he so willingly come back to a welcome wagaon of police officers at the airport? He is obviously aware of the changes that are comming soon...No other incentive that I can think of...


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/...-crime015.html
The changes are long overdue because Canada has a reputation for being lax on this type of crime, Kevin O'Leary, chair of O'Leary Funds, told CBC.
"For decades now, if you're going to steal money, Canada is the place to do it, because we simply don't throw our fraudsters into prison for any extended periods of time," he said. "Clearly now the pendulum is swinging."

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by macker

True enough! He was offering 3-5% returns per month. I saw an ad on a bus the other day offering 24% iirc I think it was Profunds or something like that. After Shire and Concrete etc. etc. hopefully the general public is getting the due diligence message. This Sorenson very well could be a sociopath but some of those who invested with him should have known better or if they didn't I am very surprised they were able qualify for his minimum investment.

What due diligence? If someone understands the risk-return frontier, (ie as average return goes up so does the risk) they'd understand that a claim of 25% per annum = far too risky for suitable investment for their entire life savings regardless of how snazzy the pitchman's dressed or how legit the letterhead of the company looks, or how many of their friends recommend it. The initial pitch language right away should kick the 'reject' side of the decision tree in gear before even finding out any more details.

But alas people are far too greedy and ignore life's enternal truth. Finance is like everything else in life from wieght loss, to achieving higher levels of education, to quitting smoking, to pretty much any accomplishment worth accomplishing: It takes discipline, time, and effort, and any attempt to speed up the process is wraught with potential failure.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

What due diligence? If someone understands the risk-return frontier, (ie as average return goes up so does the risk) they'd understand that a claim 25% per annum = far too risky for suitable investment for their entire life savings regardless of how snazzy the pitchman's dressed or how legit the letterhead of the company looks, or how many of their friends recommend it. The initial pitch language right away should kick the 'reject' side of the decision tree in gear before even finding out any more details.

But alas people are far too greedy and ignore life's enternal truth. Finance is like everything else in life from wieght loss, to achieving higher levels of education, to quitting smoking, to pretty much any accomplishment worth accomplishing: It takes discipline, time, and effort, and any attempt to speed up the process is wraught with potential failure.

I agree entirely with the second paragraph here and it reminds me of a good quote from Buffett: "You can't produce a baby in a month by getting nine women pregnant".

I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't agree with the risk/return frontier. I think that is a sham that has been readily embraced because it looks good on paper and is easy for people to understand.