The coming evangelical collapse - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Azure · 03-10-2009, 11:41 AM

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html

Interesting article.

Not that I agree. At least with his 'prediction.' Just to make sure everyone knows that just because I post articles, it doesn't mean I AGREE with what is being said.

nik- · 03-10-2009, 11:55 AM

Circle the Wagons!!!

Weiser Wonder · 03-10-2009, 12:11 PM

I've always felt it will die right along with the social conservative movement that will collapse in the next decade so I'll agree with the premise of the article. The United States is slowly but surely changing its mindset from a moralistic religious one to a more rational, tolerant one in the mold of Europe. This is evident in the election of Obama, the fewer number of people recognizing themselves as Christians, the polls on gay marriage becoming increasingly in favor of it (despite the prop 8 vote and the other votes banning gay marriage, the polls weren't nearly as lopsided as they would have been 10-15 years ago).

It might not happen in a decade, but it'll happen. That or the US economy will collapse bringing about some sort of fascist regime.

octothorp · 03-10-2009, 12:24 PM

Yeah, an interesting read. CSM is definitely the most thoughtful of the christian media outlets. I think it raises an excellent point about how young Christians are being indocrinated in terms of beliefs and feelings (my words not his), but not really being taught the basis of their faith. So they can spout the same arguments over and over without really understanding the basis in scriptures. Many Christians that I end up debating with have less of a knowledge of the scriptures and the history of the Christian religion than I do, and I'm an agnostic atheist.

Clever_Iggy · 03-10-2009, 12:24 PM

"The Crazies" (Evangelicals/Born Agains) have enjoyed their little ride. The sooner it ends, the quicker and further society can develop.

Vulcan · 03-10-2009, 01:02 PM

The other side is that with the recession, people are going to turn to god, psychics and any other charlatans who will offer them hope, even if they have to give up their common sense.

octothorp · 03-10-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The other side is that with the recession, people are going to turn to god, psychics and any other charlatans who will offer them hope, even if they have to give up their common sense.

I'm not sure that this is the case though. The 30s and 40s are generally thought of as one of the more secular periods in American history, and there was largely a return to lay ministry (away from having ordained clergy, and instead having members of the congregation direct and lead the church). Obviously we have a very different world today and there's no certainty that we'd follow the same trends.

GirlySports · 03-10-2009, 01:42 PM

I don't think so

$19 million in less than 24 hours

Cowboy89 · 03-10-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The other side is that with the recession, people are going to turn to god, psychics and any other charlatans who will offer them hope, even if they have to give up their common sense.

Seems to explain Obama's election

Vulcan · 03-10-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Seems to explain Obama's election

Not everyone offering hope is a charlatan, there are legitimate reasons for hope, too. It just requires some intelligence and discernment.

Displaced Flames fan · 03-10-2009, 03:00 PM

I'm hoping for a massive rejection of the move further to the right the RNC is planning for the next election. They've hijacked the party in the first place and are too blinded by their self righteousness to see it. At some point, the social moderates and fiscal conservatives will get their party back. I'm hoping it's in 2012.

troutman · 03-10-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I'm hoping for a massive rejection of the move further to the right the RNC is planning for the next election. They've hijacked the party in the first place and are too blinded by their self righteousness to see it. At some point, the social moderates and fiscal conservatives will get their party back. I'm hoping it's in 2012.

Dear Republican Leaders: The Republican Party has become the party dedicated to sabotaging the American future. Check out the sermon I just delivered about the Republican Party on CNN when being interviewed by D.L. Hughley -- and/or read on.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-..._b_172822.html

You Republicans are the arsonists who burned down our national home. You combined the failed ideologies of the Religious Right, so-called free market deregulation and the Neoconservative love of war to light a fire that has consumed America. Now you have the nerve to criticize the "architect" America just hired -- President Obama -- to rebuild from the ashes. You do nothing constructive, just try to hinder the one person willing and able to fix the mess you created.

I used to be one of you.

How can anyone who loves our country support the Republicans now? Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley and Ronald Reagan defined the modern conservatism that used to be what the Republican Party I belonged to was about. Today no actual conservative can be a Republican. Reagan would despise today's wholly negative Republican Party. And can you picture the gentlemanly and always polite Ronald Reagan, endorsing a radio hate-jock slob who crudely mocked a man with Parkinson's and who now says he wants an American president to fail?!

Frank Schaeffer is the author of CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back Now in paperback.

GirlySports · 03-10-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I'm hoping for a massive rejection of the move further to the right the RNC is planning for the next election. They've hijacked the party in the first place and are too blinded by their self righteousness to see it. At some point, the social moderates and fiscal conservatives will get their party back. I'm hoping it's in 2012.

I'm hoping too. But the Republican party does have to stay right. I think they're making a mistake by trying to find the next Obama, whether it be Jindal or someone else. American politics is basically 50-50. If Obama screws up then there should be a viable alternative. I agree with you that if they go too far right following the RNC, then the party will decline for a long time.

Vulcan · 03-10-2009, 03:50 PM

I hope the Republican party dies a quiet death like it deserves and the Democrats divide into left and right parties.

GirlySports · 03-10-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I hope the Republican party dies a quiet death like it deserves and the Democrats divide into left and right parties.

Yeah, Left Welfare and Right Welfare.

RougeUnderoos · 03-10-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I'm hoping too. But the Republican party does have to stay right. I think they're making a mistake by trying to find the next Obama, whether it be Jindal or someone else. American politics is basically 50-50. If Obama screws up then there should be a viable alternative. I agree with you that if they go too far right following the RNC, then the party will decline for a long time.

There is "staying right" and "following Rush Limbaugh into the toilet". Right now they seem to have picked the latter. It ain't going to work.

The funny thing is, Rush is A) a moron and B) not a conservative.

There are plenty of smart, legit conservatives out there. Where the hell are they?

Vulcan · 03-10-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yeah, Left Welfare and Right Welfare.

Well thanks to the poor regulation of the banking industry brought on by capitalist greed, the biggest welfare bums are now on Wall street.

flip · 03-10-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I'm hoping for a massive rejection of the move further to the right the RNC is planning for the next election. They've hijacked the party in the first place and are too blinded by their self righteousness to see it. At some point, the social moderates and fiscal conservatives will get their party back. I'm hoping it's in 2012.

Don't get your hopes up now. I just finished reading a Robert Novak article from April 2008 that says the GOP has NO chance until they fully embrace the evangelicals and stop just paying lip service to them.

He calls them and I quote "indispensable". And says that without them the GOP will dissolve into obscurity.

Vulcan · 03-10-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yeah, Left Welfare and Right Welfare.

The thing is, it doesn't have anything to do with welfare. The conservatives like Dis don't have a spot anymore in the Republican Party as it has been taken over by the religious 'born again' crowd and the Neo-Cons, and they aren't about to give it up. It isn't just the voters who no longer have a place, the old Republican conservative higher ups who used to run the party have become disaffected. Even McCain, in my opinion doesn't fit there anymore. He just played the game to try to get elected and he never was really accepted by the religious, so he had to bring Palin aboard.

flip · 03-10-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The thing is, it doesn't have anything to do with welfare. The conservatives like Dis don't have a spot anymore in the Republican Party as it has been taken over by the religious 'born again' crowd and the Neo-Cons, and they aren't about to give it up. It isn't just the voters who no longer have a place, the old Republican conservative higher ups who used to run the party have become disaffected. Even McCain, in my opinion doesn't fit there anymore. He just played the game to try to get elected and he never was really accepted by the religious, so he had to bring Palin aboard.

Thing is there are no "higher ups" in the Republican party. It isn't like in Canada for example when the Liberals for Life tried to take over the Liberal party back in the day and were kicked out. For example we all know who the leaders of the Liberals, Conservatives, NDP etc are in Canada. So who leads the GOP? There is no answer, and there never has been. They have pseudo leaders, but not a true leader like in Canadian politics who can really shape the style and direction of the party.

US politics are shaped in such a way that any group that wants to can basically take over a party from within and that is exactly what the religious right and the evangelicals have done.