Scientology on trial in France for organised fraud. - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Bagor · 05-25-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

The Church of Scientology has gone on trial in the French capital, Paris, accused of organised fraud.
The case centres on a complaint by a woman who says she was pressured into paying large sums of money after being offered a free personality test.
The church, which is fighting the charges, denies that any mental manipulation took place.
France regards Scientology as a sect, not a religion, and the organisation could be banned if it loses the case.
It will be the first time the church has appeared as a defendant in a fraud case in France. Previous court cases have involved individual Scientologists.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8066743.stm

How can you win a case like this? Can't they argue that they simply believe in what they're selling just like e.g. other so called religions and how do you prove "pressured" unless there's a threat of violence or something?

Couldn't any individual launch a similar case against any religion and have an inquistion conducted?

4X4 · 05-25-2009, 08:34 AM

While I think it's hilarious that they're being taken to court, I'm also a little sad for humanity that any of us are stupid enough to believe a religion that was openly invented, a mere 50 years ago, for the sole purpose of getting the inventor rich.

SebC · 05-25-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagor

How can you win a case like this? Can't they argue that they simply believe in what they're selling just like e.g. other so called religions and how do you prove "pressured" unless there's a threat of violence or something?

The article says they're considered a sect in France and not a religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagor

Couldn't any individual launch a similar case against any religion and have an inquistion conducted?

Makes sense to me.

burn_this_city · 05-25-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

While I think it's hilarious that they're being taken to court, I'm also a little sad for humanity that any of us are stupid enough to believe a religion that was openly invented, a mere 50 years ago, for the sole purpose of getting the inventor rich.

Whats not plausible about Xenu, the soul collector and the fact alien spirits roam the world?

CaptainCrunch · 05-25-2009, 08:45 AM

Defense attorney - "And the defense calls Lord Xenu as its next witness."

4X4 · 05-25-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Whats not plausible about Xenu, the soul collector and the fact alien spirits roam the world?

If I pay you lots of money, will you tell me more?

Cowperson · 05-25-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagor

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8066743.stm

How can you win a case like this? Can't they argue that they simply believe in what they're selling just like e.g. other so called religions and how do you prove "pressured" unless there's a threat of violence or something?

Couldn't any individual launch a similar case against any religion and have an inquistion conducted?

If a court forced the Catholic Church to prove that Jesus Christ once existed the CC would be hard pressed to do it.

In fact, they likely couldn't since such definitive prove doesn't exist.

Organized religion - or disorganized religion - is about faith in the unproveable.

Cowperson

burn_this_city · 05-25-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

If I pay you lots of money, will you tell me more?

Sure, but you'll have to wait a couple years.

Hack&Lube · 05-25-2009, 09:07 AM

People have won cases against scientology before. The methods they used to pressure you into sending them more and more money are practically coercion and blackmail in many cases once you get deep into the system and try to get out.

Scientology is already partially outlawed in Germany where it was ruled to be unconstitutional. They seem to have this thing where they are able to recognize facist ideas or organizations like what Scientology basically is.

MoneyGuy · 05-25-2009, 09:11 AM

I hate Tom Cruise even more than I hate Chris Pronger. And I agree with 4x4. Someone creates some stupid cult a few decades ago to make himself rich and you base your life on that? Wow!

Hack&Lube · 05-25-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I hate Tom Cruise even more than I hate Chris Pronger. And I agree with 4x4. Someone creates some stupid cult a few decades ago to make himself rich and you base your life on that? Wow!

There's a reason why it's called a cult. They have good brainwashing techniques and methods of persuasion. Once you get in, it is difficult to get out...but in this day and age you'd have to be stupid to even consider it in the first place.

Ice · 05-25-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

There's a reason why it's called a cult. They have good brainwashing techniques and methods of persuasion. Once you get in, it is difficult to get out...but in this day and age you'd have to be stupid to even consider it in the first place.

That is the reason they have people take personality tests. They use those tests to find people who will be more easily brainwashed. There are companies that are fronts for Scientology to find people for their cult.

I know someone who went on a job interview at a software/computer company. Prior to the interview, it just seemed like any other software company. However, when they arrived, they took a two hour personality test, then were told of the HUGE salary for the position and left in a room to wait to interview with the next person. While waiting in that room someone else came in with "reading material" and spoke of how great the company was and encouraged the person to read the material they were leaving behind. About another half hour passed when the personality tests obviously revealed this person would not be a good victim for them so they were asked to leave. CRAZY.

The person who went to interview said he had a creepy vibe while taking the personality tests because of the nature of the questions. It got even creepier with the Scientology salesman. But you know, during that process, that company is sure to find people they can manipulate.

Blaster86 · 05-25-2009, 10:40 AM

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

WesternCanadaKing · 05-26-2009, 12:43 AM

A friend and I took the free personality test and the interview that goes along with it just to see exactly what they would say to us.

The fact is that we're both apparently incredibly depressed, overly aggressive, compulsively lying, confused hypocrites with our only hope being that we lay down $40 for Dianetics and over 300 dollars in courses immediately. That doesn't even include the price to get hooked up to the magical e-meter!

They showed us both graphs that detailed exactly how messed up we were. My friend and I are both pretty different and therefor filled out this 'test' quite differently (a test called the "Oxford Personality Review", even though it was created by L. Ron Hubbard) but both of our graphs looked almost exactly the same once we compared them afterwards. They also used cold reading quite effectively to pretend to know things about our lives (such as divorced parents, or money troubles), claiming that they knew them after 'studying' our graphs. In the separate interviews they used different tactics based how we answered the questions, but the end message was exactly the same. For somebody who actually does have issues in their life, I can see them being sucked into this quite easily, and actually handing over the $340 they were asking for. Preys on the weak just like any other scam.

Definitely fraud in my books.

RougeUnderoos · 05-26-2009, 01:16 AM

How did you even get in touch with those people? Are they in Calgary?

I can see how someone could get involved with the Mormons (who are out in force lately) or the JW's, but does Scientology even have a facility or adherents here?

Like a couple other people said, it does seem loopy to get roped into a "religion" that was invented in the 50's, but I don't know that their backstory is any wilder than some of the mainstream religions.

Antithesis · 05-26-2009, 06:11 AM

I found this address online:

824C Edmonton Trail NE
Calgary, AB

Don't seem to be many google references to it at all ...

Coach · 05-26-2009, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Like a couple other people said, it does seem loopy to get roped into a "religion" that was invented in the 50's, but I don't know that their backstory
is any wilder than some of the mainstream religions.

exactly. I'm all for people believing in whatever they want, because if you ask me aliens implanting something in us is no more farfetched than a big guy in the sky.

Frank the Tank · 05-26-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How did you even get in touch with those people? Are they in Calgary?

I can see how someone could get involved with the Mormons (who are out in force lately) or the JW's, but does Scientology even have a facility or adherents here?

Like a couple other people said, it does seem loopy to get roped into a "religion" that was invented in the 50's, but I don't know that their backstory is any wilder than some of the mainstream religions.

Mormonism was made up out of the clear blue and look where they are now. I swear, if people are desperate enough, they will believe anything.

Tron_fdc · 05-26-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Mormonism was made up out of the clear blue and look where they are now. I swear, if people are desperate enough, they will believe anything.

It wasn't made up, it was plagiarized (in my opinion, anyway).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Spalding

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaldin...mon_authorship

WesternCanadaKing · 05-26-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How did you even get in touch with those people? Are they in Calgary?

I can see how someone could get involved with the Mormons (who are out in force lately) or the JW's, but does Scientology even have a facility or adherents here?

Like a couple other people said, it does seem loopy to get roped into a "religion" that was invented in the 50's, but I don't know that their backstory is any wilder than some of the mainstream religions.

My friend and I just stumbled upon it while we were walking around downtown Sydney one night. They referred us to the Calgary chapter (gave us e-mails, phone numbers, addresses, but we both lost the papers they gave us) so there must be something here in Calgary too. I've also passed them in London, San Francisco, LA, Brisbane, and Perth and they were all in downtown areas set up to 'snag' people as they walked by. I'm sure its hidden away somewhere in the downtown or beltline area.