Sea Sheperd Society

[killer_carlson]

These guys are in trouble again.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/0...t-whalers.html

I really like whales, and I think what Japan is doing is repugnant especially after I went sea kayaking in the antarctic with Minke whales in 2003, but the Sea Sheperd appears to be conducting eco-terrorism again.

I'm not sure if you've seen that 2007 documentary about them, but they planned to secretly board the japanese vessel, sabatoge it, and then get away. I was watching the entire time thinking that merely dressing themselves up in the clothes of an environmentalist does not change the fact that they are conducting planned, deliberate sabatoge - possibly piracy. Much like the Greenpeace guys here in the Province who plugged up and mucked up the Syncrude (or was it Suncor) pipes but then complained when they got sued, the Sea Sheperd has to realize that there are going to be consequences for their aggressive and deliberate actions. The ends do not justify the means - especially when you're putting people's lives in jeopardy.

I'm surprised that a gun ship has not blown them out of the water. They are playing a very dangerous game.

[Ronald Pagan]

The Japanese vessel is also acting illegally. Not that I condone Sea Shepherds but lets call a spade a spade.

[FurnaceFace]

It's a tough one however I think the Sea Sheppard has escalated to this point because not enough people in power seem to really care about what is going on. There is so much illegal fishing going on governments turn a blind eye to. Traditional lobbying seems to have very little effect which is a shame, and The Sea Sheppard is the end result of that.

While I've never seen myself as a hard line supporter of Greenpeace or similar organizations, I do have to admin to supporting them in at least some of the ideals. We're destroying the oceans at an alarming rate which will have far reaching impacts we'll likely never fully see.

A thousand whales for research? I need the proof they are truly going to research. I would challenge these researchers to allow observers to follow their processing of all the whales. If it's truly for research they should have nothing to hide and welcome Paul Watson and friends to see exactly what they are doing.

[Ronald Pagan]

There is absolutely no way those whales are used for research. The Japanese vessel is a floating whale processing factory.

[Russic]

In a case like this I have little problem with the illegal behavior of the Sea Shepherd. It's a whale slaughter plain and simple. I would imagine their secondary goal is to generate attention and it would appear as though they are succeeding.

[Canada 02]

More information

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/permits.htm

Antarctic (2) – JARPA II

A new large-scale Antarctic programme (called JARPA II) commenced during the austral summer of 2005/06. The first two seasons were feasibility studies. The objectives for JARPA II differ from those for JARPA and are defined by Japan as:

1. monitoring of the Antarctic ecosystem;
2. modelling competition among whale species and developing future management objectives;
3. elucidation of temporal and spatial changes in stock structure;
4. improving the management procedure for Antarctic minke whale stocks.

JARPA II will focus on Antarctic minke, humpback and fin whales and possibly other species in the Antarctic ecosystem that are major predators of Antarctic krill. During the 2-year feasibility study a maximum of 850±10% Antarctic minke whales and ten fin whales were killed and sampled in each season. Annual sample sizes for the proposed full-scale research (lethal sampling) are 850 (with 10% allowance) Antarctic minke whales (Eastern Indian Ocean and Western South Pacific stocks), 50 humpback whales (D and E stocks) and 50 fin whales (Indian Ocean and the Western South Pacific stocks). Humpback whales were not taken during the feasibility study. The research methods for cetaceans for JARPA II are similar to those for JARPA. The programme also includes non-lethal research techniques to be used such as sighting surveys, biopsy sampling, acoustic surveys for prey species and the collection of oceanographic data.

At the 2007 Annual meeting here was considerable disagreement over the value of this research both within the Scientific Committee and the Commission. As in previous years, there was severe disagreement within the Committee regarding advice that should be provided on a number of issues, including: the relevance of the proposed research to management, appropriate sample sizes and applicability of alternate (non-lethal) research methods.

In 2005 a Resolution was passed (30 votes to 27 votes with 1 abstention) that strongly urged the Government of Japan to withdraw its JARPA II proposal or to revise it so that any information needed to meet the stated objectives of the proposal is obtained using non-lethal means. Japan withdrew a proposed resolution in favour of the research programmes.

In 2007 the Commission passed a Resolution asking Japan to refrain from issuing a permit for JARPA II by 40 votes in favour, 2 votes against and 1 abstention; 27 countries decided not to participate in the vote as they believed that the submission of the proposal was not conducive to building bridges within the Commission.

[MJM]

Sea Shepherd are outright terrorists. Their boat is even equipped with a can opener (two blades on both sides of it) used to sink ships. Everyone of these idiots should be arrested anytime they set foot back on Canadian soil. Two wrongs don't make a right, and no one should take the law into their own hands (these are more than willing to bother legal commercial fishing vessels as well).

[Ducay]

While the Sea Shepards are using interesting means, just to clarify, when they boarded the vessel last year, they weren't trying to sabotage it.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by MJM

Sea Shepherd are outright terrorists. Their boat is even equipped with a can opener (two blades on both sides of it) used to sink ships. Everyone of these idiots should be arrested anytime they set foot back on Canadian soil. Two wrongs don't make a right, and no one should take the law into their own hands (these are more than willing to bother legal commercial fishing vessels as well).

Simple question. Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist?

Where do you draw the line between someone fighting for a just cause they believe in and a terrorist?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Ducay

While the Sea Shepards are using interesting means, just to clarify, when they boarded the vessel last year, they weren't trying to sabotage it.

they sent out a second crew that was on a mission that was to sabatoge the boat tracking them, but the crew got lost and couldn't complete it.

Japan is totally wrong here - TOTALLY WRONG - but the Sea Shepherd is off side as well and are going to get smashed. When they do, they shouldn't come crying for picking a fight they were going to lose.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Simple question. Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist?

Where do you draw the line between someone fighting for a just cause they believe in and a terrorist?

What a Devil's Advocate type question to ask...

But I completely agree with you. You never want to have to advocate it, because you don't want vigilantism to become commonplace, but every once in a while people need to do stuff like this, and movements have to be started.

The most important movements in human history ALWAYS started out as illegal, and it would be foolish to think that we've come so far with our laws and society that we can simply 'work within the system' to solve every problem. We can see that that isn't always the case.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Simple question. Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist?

Where do you draw the line between someone fighting for a just cause they believe in and a terrorist?

Early on in his life yes he was a terrorist, then when he renounced violence he stopped being one and gained worldwide support.

His wife continued to be a terrorist by refusing to renounce violence.

If seashepard used non-violent methods such as blockades or generally getting in the way i could support them.

[Azure]

I hope they get blown out of the water.

There are better ways to get people to listen to your cause.

[Daradon]

^^^ Considering the epidemic levels of shark finning and whaling, there actually may not be.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by GGG

Early on in his life yes he was a terrorist, then when he renounced violence he stopped being one and gained worldwide support. His wife continued to be a terrorist by refusing to renounce violence.

So when he was fighting an oppressive government for the rights of black people, he was an evil terrorist. Interesting.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Simple question. Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist?

Where do you draw the line between someone fighting for a just cause they believe in and a terrorist?

Is (was) the IRA a terrorist group? They were fighting for a cause they believed in. How about Hamas, I mean after all they are fighting for a cause they believed in.

The main difference in the definition of a terrorist is the viewpoint on what you think is just. One side thinks it is, the other thinks it is not.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

So when he was fighting an oppressive government for the rights of black people, he was an evil terrorist. Interesting.

Didn't you know? Like the American Revolutionaries and French Macquis, Mandela used violence to achieve his ends... rebel scum.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

These guys are in trouble again.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/0...t-whalers.html

I really like whales, and I think what Japan is doing is repugnant especially after I went sea kayaking in the antarctic with Minke whales in 2003, but the Sea Sheperd appears to be conducting eco-terrorism again.

I'm not sure if you've seen that 2007 documentary about them, but they planned to secretly board the japanese vessel, sabatoge it, and then get away. I was watching the entire time thinking that merely dressing themselves up in the clothes of an environmentalist does not change the fact that they are conducting planned, deliberate sabatoge - possibly piracy. Much like the Greenpeace guys here in the Province who plugged up and mucked up the Syncrude (or was it Suncor) pipes but then complained when they got sued, the Sea Sheperd has to realize that there are going to be consequences for their aggressive and deliberate actions. The ends do not justify the means - especially when you're putting people's lives in jeopardy.

I'm surprised that a gun ship has not blown them out of the water. They are playing a very dangerous game.

With quotes like these you wonder what kind of people they are.

"We intend to be more aggressive and even more relentless in our interventions," Sea Shepherd member Peter Hammarstedt is quoted as saying on the group's website.
"We do not intend to witness the killing of any whales; we intend to make sure no whales are killed on our watch."

Those are pretty ominous words. This may be a very good example of why Greenpeace's founder, Patrick Moore, walked away from the environmental movement. Now, instead, the environmental movement is moving away from pacifism.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

I hope they get blown out of the water.

There are better ways to get people to listen to your cause.

Something tells me he would be using these 'better ways' if they existed.

I just watched the Sharkwater documentary on HBO last night. These guys fight the good fight, and anyone that calls them 'eco terrorists' is straight up out to lunch. Asian and Latin American fishers truly do not care at all about conservation...To me that's a hell of a lot more like eco terrorism

[BavarianHorde]

Here is some video:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...60174#29057106