Religulous - The Hour - Tuesday

[Thor]

Just a heads up, Larry Charles and Bill Maher will be on CBC's The Hour with George Stambalambupous sp? on Tuesday Sep 30th.

Of course it opens this Friday night as well in Theaters, still trying to find places showing it if anyone has any confirmed please post

[The Goon]

Thanks for posting this info. I find Bill Maher both entertaining and insufferable - I don't always agree with him, but he's always good to kick-start my brain. He and Larry Charles will be good guests for Strombo.

[peter12]

I can't stand Bill Maher and his dirty hooker stain pants. This movie is going to be same-old, same-old. Bill Maher hates religion. Anything more? No.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by peter12

I can't stand Bill Maher and his dirty hooker stain pants. This movie is going to be same-old, same-old. Bill Maher hates religion. Anything more? No.

Don't worry. Ben Stein can make another movie, more to your liking.

[FlamesAddiction]

I like Bill Maher, but I haven't actually listened to him or watched his show in years. I'm sure I'll end up renting this.

Does he actually direct the documentary, or is he just the star of it?

[RougeUnderoos]

The bits I've seen of this movie -- it looks like it's just himtravelling around, listening to some of the crazy things religious people do, and then acting incredulous.

I've got nothing against doing that, but it doesn't sound like a great recipe for 90 minutes of interest.

Great title though.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I like Bill Maher, but I haven't actually listened to him or watched his show in years. I'm sure I'll end up renting this.

Does he actually direct the documentary, or is he just the star of it?

Larry Charles of Seinfeld, Borat fame, is directing it.

From what I've heard, Larry Charles has so much footage not able to fit into the film he's looking into a multi episode deal on cable to show in episodes the extras from the film.

The reviews have been really great, and of course here's hoping more people protest the movie so it gets more attention

[corporatejay]

Sounds like a good premise for an HBO show, not a feature film.

Also, I like Bill Maher but recently found out he's on the Board for PETA.....I lost a little respect for him after hearing that.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Yeah, I like Maher too--in small doses. I'm not sure traveling around and making fun of religious people is really all that entertaining in the end, and Maher's brand of comedy can have a nasty edge to it sometimes. I'm not religious, but I'm also not one to make fun of people who are--part of being a pluralist is living and letting live, and not having to be right all the time. I'll read some reviews, but my enthusiasm is kind of at the "shrug" level for this.

[Thor]

Have you guys seen either of Dawkins two documentaries, "Root of All Evil?" and "Enemies of Reason" ?

I mean Maher will bring humour to the sillyness of Religion mixed in probably with some serious messages about the dangers of faith, while Dawkins took a similar approach minus the humour.

At least Maher is using humour ala George Carlin, its somewhat 'softer' than a Dawkins approach which is a hammer beating you on the head with logic and reason

I'm just a fan of raising awareness at this point, the rise of 'atheism' 'anti-theism' 'secular humanism' etc... are really needed in the age of rising radicalism and encroachment of Islam into the west.

I lived most of my first 30 years as an atheist, let bygones be bygones and only debated it when people wanted to debate. But a lot has changed in the last 8 years, 9/11 was a wake up call, Bush's administration was scary, and now we have Palin/Mccain who are creationists, believe abortion is wrong even in incest or rape situations, and Palin who could be 1 step from president thinks God is involved in US foreign policy.

People think this rise of Atheism is just a 'cool trend' but its reactionary to the frustrations most of us feel watching whats happening in the world. In the famous words of a British atheist comedian "Can we have our world back please..."

The problem is/has always been criticism of Religion is seen as rude, uncouth, wrong, mean, unfair, etc.. Maher, Carlin, Dawkins, me, etc.. Anyone of us share probably the same one idea, debating Religion IS important, IS reasonable and should be more part of the public discourse. Religion should not have any special 'no debate clause' because it hurts feelings.

If religion was benign and harmless, did not affect the laws of the lands we live in, didn't enourage irrational and dangerous belief, wars, skirmeshes, threatens peace, freedoms, etc.. Then sure I'd be quiet about it, but unfortunately I can't sit idly by while the world is seemingly reverting to backwards beliefs instead of moving forward.

I'm quite honestly more frightened about the future than I have ever been, and its Religious ideologies, Religious zealotry, Religious Intolerance and Religious Expansion that is for me some of our biggest threats to global destruction.

Least Bill can do it with humour, I'm just not that funny

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thor

Have you guys seen either of Dawkins two documentaries, "Root of All Evil?" and "Enemies of Reason" ?

I mean Maher will bring humour to the sillyness of Religion mixed in probably with some serious messages about the dangers of faith, while Dawkins took a similar approach minus the humour.

At least Maher is using humour ala George Carlin, its somewhat 'softer' than a Dawkins approach which is a hammer beating you on the head with logic and reason

I'm just a fan of raising awareness at this point, the rise of 'atheism' 'anti-theism' 'secular humanism' etc... are really needed in the age of rising radicalism and encroachment of Islam into the west.

I lived most of my first 30 years as an atheist, let bygones be bygones and only debated it when people wanted to debate. But a lot has changed in the last 8 years, 9/11 was a wake up call, Bush's administration was scary, and now we have Palin/Mccain who are creationists, believe abortion is wrong even in incest or rape situations, and Palin who could be 1 step from president thinks God is involved in US foreign policy.

People think this rise of Atheism is just a 'cool trend' but its reactionary to the frustrations most of us feel watching whats happening in the world. In the famous words of a British atheist comedian "Can we have our world back please..."

The problem is/has always been criticism of Religion is seen as rude, uncouth, wrong, mean, unfair, etc.. Maher, Carlin, Dawkins, me, etc.. Anyone of us share probably the same one idea, debating Religion IS important, IS reasonable and should be more part of the public discourse. Religion should not have any special 'no debate clause' because it hurts feelings.

If religion was benign and harmless, did not affect the laws of the lands we live in, didn't enourage irrational and dangerous belief, wars, skirmeshes, threatens peace, freedoms, etc.. Then sure I'd be quiet about it, but unfortunately I can't sit idly by while the world is seemingly reverting to backwards beliefs instead of moving forward.

I'm quite honestly more frightened about the future than I have ever been, and its Religious ideologies, Religious zealotry, Religious Intolerance and Religious Expansion that is for me some of our biggest threats to global destruction.

Least Bill can do it with humour, I'm just not that funny

I appreciate that he can do it with humour and I think it's a message that has to be sent, but it just seems to me that outright mockery of kooky religious ideas isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

The people that will agree with him already do, the people that don't will think he's an agent of the devil and will use his movie as an affirmation of their own silly beliefs. The people in the middle will say "yeah, I'm *religion X* but these fundamentalists don't represent me".

That being said, I say go for it. I'll watch him on The Hour and eventually see the movie. He'll be preaching to the converted when I watch it though, and those who should be watching it simply won't.

I read Pharyngula every day, and the last few months on that blog have demonstrated that mocking or denigrating religion just makes the followers crazier.

[Thor]

Comedy is a great tool, its not going to work for the 'Religulous' out there, but certainly debate with humour with 'moderate Religous' folk is where the real debate/battle is.

I think the point of films like this is yes to preach to the converted, but also to evoke debate/discussion in the mainstream.

People who consider themselves reasonable people, moderate religious, are often the likely people who will consider debating their own beliefs and partaking in thought provoking discussions.

Not to say the fringes of religions are hopeless and lost... But we all know convincing them anything contrary to their views will be very difficult at best.

Thankfully the fringes aren't the majority, films like Religulous hope to remind moderates that they are whether they like it or not, helping such behavior exist and even being apologetic for such people.

Don't underestimate the power of books and films to get people 'soft on religion' to really think about their own belief and even turn to the darkside of atheism. I see a lot of posts on Dawkins forums about people being shunned by their own families for telling them their non belief, some cases pretty extreme.

The courage it takes for those people to do that is no joke, films like this, books like the many published in the last 5 years.. they are making it easier for people such as these to find acceptance and realize they are not the tiny % of people that they might feel if it wasn't for awareness in media, books, etc..

The strategy can't be simple in this debate of idea's, humour works for some, logic works for some, and sometimes mockery evokes a response where nothing else will. If nothing, I don't believe rise of atheism is causing more zealotry, I think the rise of Islam is doing a great job on that by itself, causing fear in Christians/Catholics/Jews, while turning world politics into a battleground of Islam vs the rest of the world.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Thor

Comedy is a great tool, its not going to work for the 'Religulous' out there, but certainly debate with humour with 'moderate Religous' folk is where the real debate/battle is.

.

Comedy is a point of view. To some people, Tucker Carlson or Ann Coulter making fun of liberals is great comedy. Some people laugh at anti-Semitic and racist jokes...

There's a line where making fun of people crosses into condescending belittlement.

This movie, like most Michael Moore movies, will be geared towards a certain audience and will be most likely preaching to the choir. I doubt in the grand scheme of things, that it will change people's views.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't worry. Ben Stein can make another movie, more to your liking.

Haha, what a silly statement. Don't people get tired of smug, not-funny comedians going around and making fun of religious people? The depth of your beliefs have to be more nuanced than that. Pretty pathetic.

[mykalberta]

Bill Maher can go around believing whatever he wants.

If anyone who believes in religion is swayed at all by this then the dont believe in religion. And they can go back to thinking that humans evolved from bacteria.

[driveway]

I used to be a huge Bill Mahr fan back in the "Politically Incorrect" days. I thought the show was hilarious and Bill was equally eager to pillory the left as the right. Back then, he was a pretty staunch Libertarian.

It speaks to the polarization of American political and cultural life, I think, that Bill has moved so far left from where he used to be. I think he's whip-smart and can be funny, but his comedy has indeed taken on a bit of a nasty edge. The involvement of Larry Charles should help this film a great deal, as a film.

As for mocking the religious, I don't really think it's about changing anyone's mind who is already convinced. I think it's more about altering the cultural perception - making it more and more acceptable for people to question religious dogma, moving society slowly towards a more enlightened, humanist philosophy.

Perhaps the best that we could hope for from this film is that some kid with rigid theocratic parents will see it at a friends house and start to wonder and question what he or she is being told and go out and figure some stuff out for themselves.

[photon]

Originally Posted by driveway

I think it's more about altering the cultural perception - making it more and more acceptable for people to question religious dogma, moving society slowly towards a more enlightened, humanist philosophy.

Perhaps the best that we could hope for from this film is that some kid with rigid theocratic parents will see it at a friends house and start to wonder and question what he or she is being told and go out and figure some stuff out for themselves.

Or even a reflection of those changing perceptions, since media is usually a result of what's going on rather than trying to change it isn't it?

As mykalberta points out, someone who's deep into religion isn't likely going to change, at least not with this kind of thing (since they're already conditioned to believe based only on what an authority tells them rather than through evidence and such).

Though it's not impossible, I know many people who've come out of religion. But it usually isn't something like Religulous that does it.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by photon

Though it's not impossible, I know many people who've come out of religion. But it usually isn't something like Religulous that does it.

There are many pages of letters to Dawkins at his web-site describing their conversion. I don't know if there are many commonalities in the conversion stories:

http://www.richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner

De-conversion stories:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8361.htm

[Thor]

Originally Posted by troutman

There are many pages of letters to Dawkins at his web-site describing their conversion. I don't know if there are many commonalities in the conversion stories:

http://www.richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner

De-conversion stories:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8361.htm

I've read probably most of those, and there are a lot of common themes to them. Often its from mid-late teens in Family's where its 'believe in god or else' type parenting, where fear has kept them from leaving faith. Another good chunk seems to be the 'I always had doubts when I was younger, but I read 'insert book here' or saw 'insert documentary here' and it blew me away.

I think the key to any de-conversion is people who will truly be critical with their own beliefs, read or do some research on their own on their particular belief.

If you are brought up a particular religion, surrounded by it in family, friends, schools, etc.. Its very difficult to see any other viewpoint or have any fair chance to decide such an important matter at an age where you are old enough to appreciate the consequences. Fear is a huge portion of belief, fear that not believing has dire eternal consequences, family shunning you, etc.

When religious people say things like "yeah sure we evolved from bacteria" you know its a last grasp of their arguments. They can't use the bible as an argument, its so flawed and easy to dismiss even by religious people. Science is badly studied by religious people, and they rely on talking points from their church/friends to argue against something like evolution which is overwhelmingly clear and easy to understand.

Thats the battle, its logic over irrationality. People hide behind "well its faith" as a way to run away at a point where they can't find a "god did it" answer acceptable anymore.

But at the point a person truly personally debates these things with a logical, critical mind, they will more often than not see much of what we atheists see. Religions manipulating, 'evolving' with times to keep the sheep, and the biggest concern shackles the mind into a way of thinking that affects every decision that person makes. Its a foundation built on wet sand, and it helps lead people to believe in other irrational things, do irrational things, etc..

Its why I'd love to see children be brought up not being indoctrinated into a particular belief, yes even atheism. But rather given the chance to decide that big issue later in their late teens when they can truly understand the question of faith, god, etc.. But Religion and I'm sure Religious people know that IF you don't get them while they are young, you probably end up with heathens.

[troutman]

Many of the de-conversion stories are very sad - many people are rejected by their friends and families.