'Major discovery' from MIT primed to unleash solar revolution

[Thor]

'Major discovery' from MIT primed to unleash solar revolution
Scientists mimic essence of plants' energy storage system

Anne Trafton, News Office

In a revolutionary leap that could transform solar power from a marginal, boutique alternative into a mainstream energy source, MIT researchers have overcome a major barrier to large-scale solar power: storing energy for use when the sun doesn't shine.

Until now, solar power has been a daytime-only energy source, because storing extra solar energy for later use is prohibitively expensive and grossly inefficient. With today's announcement, MIT researchers have hit upon a simple, inexpensive, highly efficient process for storing solar energy.

link: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html (includes video)

[Phanuthier]

what is the inefficiency of this system?

[Locke]

You probably shouldnt copy the whole article, the mods are touchy about that, you know copyright voodoo and the like...

Interesting stuff though, at the very least there are people putting in a concerted effort on this front.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Locke

You probably shouldnt copy the whole article, the mods are touchy about that, you know copyright voodoo and the like...

Interesting stuff though, at the very least there are people putting in a concerted effort on this front.

I thought it was ok with link and credit given?

If not mods you can edit the article and just have the link

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

what is the inefficiency of this system?

It doesn't justify kicking the crap out of western oil based economies. It'll never fly....

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

It doesn't justify kicking the crap out of western oil based economies. It'll never fly....

And what, out of curiosity, would be considered sufficient justification? Nothing thus far has seemed adequate.

[Kybosh]

I met Dan Nocera at a conference a couple months back. He was telling myself and my colleagues about this stuff and to keep an eye out for the publication (It is in Science journal/magazine for those that are interested). If I recall correctly, photosynthesis is about 8% efficient while his system does that portion of photosynthesis at something like 30% efficiency. Don't quote me on this, however.

Dan Nocera is a very interesting guy. I would describe him as an egomaniac but the guy knows his stuff and was a hoot to hang out with. At one point late into the night he said to me "See that plant? I $#^@ing OWN that plant". I'm not joking in the slightest, hilarious.

If anyone gets the chance you should go see him talk. His lectures are geared towards whoever the audience is so you don't necessarily have to be a chemist to enjoy it.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

It doesn't justify kicking the crap out of western oil based economies. It'll never fly....

I'm not sure how you can dismiss these results. This has the potential to be a monumental leap forward. This technology is not going to solve everything but Nocera himself believes his (and people like him) chemistry will lead to self-contained houses and cars.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I'm not sure how you can dismiss these results. This has the potential to be a monumental leap forward. This technology is not going to solve everything but Nocera himself believes his (and people like him) chemistry will lead to self-contained houses and cars.

I dunno, I really have my doubts. I've been reading many different huge advances in alternative energies, and for one reason or another, it just doesn't fly. Whether its big rich oil/gas companies buying all the intellectual rights to crush the competition, energy economics needed to power one of these things, and if you get sufficient energy out to make it your worthwhile, barriers and laws put up to make it that much harder, initial costs of production of these things, or even something stupid like poor marketing to the early adapters, alternative fuels just seem to fight more of an uphill battle then most other industries.

Then again, I'm not a chemist so this isn't really my field.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I'm not sure how you can dismiss these results. This has the potential to be a monumental leap forward. This technology is not going to solve everything but Nocera himself believes his (and people like him) chemistry will lead to self-contained houses and cars.

It actually seems quite cool. I wasn't trying to dismiss it, just being a tard.

If we're 10 years from endless energy then maybe carbon crusaders will lose the villian in their story.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I dunno, I really have my doubts. I've been reading many different huge advances in alternative energies, and for one reason or another, it just doesn't fly. Whether its big rich oil/gas companies buying all the intellectual rights to crush the competition, energy economics needed to power one of these things, and if you get sufficient energy out to make it your worthwhile, barriers and laws put up to make it that much harder, initial costs of production of these things, or even something stupid like poor marketing to the early adapters, alternative fuels just seem to fight more of an uphill battle then most other industries.

Then again, I'm not a chemist so this isn't really my field.

They could use the Mr Burns method and block out the sun

But in all seriousness, finding a way to harness the solar energy efficiently and eventually cheaply would be a gigantic revolution for our future.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I met Dan Nocera at a conference a couple months back. He was telling myself and my colleagues about this stuff and to keep an eye out for the publication (It is in Science journal/magazine for those that are interested). If I recall correctly, photosynthesis is about 8% efficient while his system does that portion of photosynthesis at something like 30% efficiency. Don't quote me on this, however.

Dan Nocera is a very interesting guy. I would describe him as an egomaniac but the guy knows his stuff and was a hoot to hang out with. At one point late into the night he said to me "See that plant? I $#^@ing OWN that plant". I'm not joking in the slightest, hilarious.

If anyone gets the chance you should go see him talk. His lectures are geared towards whoever the audience is so you don't necessarily have to be a chemist to enjoy it.

Who would own the patent/intellectual rights or whatever it would be called to this device/technology re. possible royalties and future earnings?

Nocera and his post-doc? MIT? The funding bodies?

It's my understanding that PhD students' work remains the intellectual property of the supervisor, and was wondering how it worked further up the chain.

[HotHotHeat]

Ya, this has American self interested company buyout written all over it.

[Ozy_Flame]

If they can find a way to harness sun power on a mass scale cheaply and efficiently, I would have only one thought going through my head.

George Carlin was a genius.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Who would own the patent/intellectual rights or whatever it would be called to this device/technology re. possible royalties and future earnings?

Nocera and his post-doc? MIT? The funding bodies?

It's my understanding that PhD students' work remains the intellectual property of the supervisor, and was wondering how it worked further up the chain.

That varies by institution but typically most of the rights to technology belong to the institution themselves. They normally get the vast majority of money from any product and the supervisor/research group gets the left overs. PhD. students or Post docs typically wouldn't get any royalties themselves unless their supervisor is a particularly generous individual.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I dunno, I really have my doubts. I've been reading many different huge advances in alternative energies, and for one reason or another, it just doesn't fly. Whether its big rich oil/gas companies buying all the intellectual rights to crush the competition, energy economics needed to power one of these things, and if you get sufficient energy out to make it your worthwhile, barriers and laws put up to make it that much harder, initial costs of production of these things, or even something stupid like poor marketing to the early adapters, alternative fuels just seem to fight more of an uphill battle then most other industries.

Then again, I'm not a chemist so this isn't really my field.

These are all valid points and this technology is currently an in lab showcase at the moment. All the problems that come with bringing something to market will obviously come. All that I know is that I've seen my fair share of "energy" seminars from a bunch of different people and this is honestly the only thing so far that I've actually been excited about.

[Coach]

sounds pretty good. basically a hydrogen fuel cell. I dunno how comfortable i would be with having a big tank of hydrogen in my basement. But I guess its not any more dangerous than natural gas or propane

[mykalberta]

Whatever we can do to limit the cash flow of North America to the middle east is welcome. This will do nothing to hamper NA produced oil and gas and NA based companies who have off continent interests, well too bad.

[octothorp]

Could this also have significance for the hydrogen-powered vehicle? Imagine a hydrogen-electric hybrid that you can fuel up at a hydrogen station and has all the advantages of a combustable engine, but which you can also fuel up by simply adding a tank of water and plugging in for a few hours. Using one of these new catalysts from MIT, the water is broken down into H and 0, with the oxygen dispersed into the air and the H passed into the fuel tank.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Could this also have significance for the hydrogen-powered vehicle? Imagine a hydrogen-electric hybrid that you can fuel up at a hydrogen station and has all the advantages of a combustable engine, but which you can also fuel up by simply adding a tank of water and plugging in for a few hours. Using one of these new catalysts from MIT, the water is broken down into H and 0, with the oxygen dispersed into the air and the H passed into the fuel tank.

OMG imagine the global cooling that will occur!