Going to Europe, have a few questions

[3 Justin 3]

So I will be there for about 3 months and I have a few questions. If anyone has been there that would help.

What is the cheapest way to take out cash? I talked to my bank CIBC and the guy told me it was $5 to take out cash from debit machines. I am unsure about my Visa (forgot to ask), but I assume it is the same amount.


Thanks.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

So I will be there for about 3 months and I have a few questions. If anyone has been there that would help.

What is the cheapest way to take out cash? I talked to my bank CIBC and the guy told me it was $5 to take out cash from debit machines. I am unsure about my Visa (forgot to ask), but I assume it is the same amount.


Thanks.

Can you be more specific about where you're going?

[csnarpy]

Visa is something like 2.5% of whatever you spend as an exchange rate. Debit is a flat rate no matter how little or how much you take out. The best is to take AMEX travelers checks and cash them in at their spots wherever you are. But no matter what you get, your going to be paying a fee for exchange.

[SebC]

If you have an extra 5 grand sitting around, switch to TD's premium account. They'll waive the $25/month fee for the account, and withdrawals are free from any Plus network ATM anywhere, which will also limit the amount of cash you need to have on you at any time. Handy if you're hostelling, because some places only take cash, so you don't want to have a weeks' worth of hostel money on you.

Whatever you do, don't stay with CIBC. Last I checked that had an extra "administration charge" (2.5%?) on currency exchanges that other banks don't, and that includes your CIBC VISA. They rip you off when you're travelling.

[@theCBE]

Originally Posted by SebC

If you have an extra 5 grand sitting around, switch to TD's premium account. They'll waive the $25/month fee for the account, and withdrawals are free from any Plus network ATM anywhere, which will also limit the amount of cash you need to have on you at any time. Handy if you're hostelling, because some places only take cash, so you don't want to have a weeks' worth of hostel money on you.

Whatever you do, don't stay with CIBC. Last I checked that had an extra "administration charge" (2.5%?) on currency exchanges that other banks don't, and that includes your CIBC VISA. They rip you off when you're travelling.

I used my CIBC VISA and my RBC VISA all the time when I was in Europe and neither of them charged me any "administration charge". It might be specific to the type of card you get. The exchange rates I got with them were pretty good as well. Far better than any of the exchange rates I would get from currency exchange booths.

As for cash I used my debit card to take out cash from any machine that had PLUS whenever I needed too, usually 200-250 euro's at a time. It was little enough so that if it got stolen I wouldn't be totally screwed but enough cash that I only had to take it out once a week at the most. I tried to use my credit card as much as possible. It was a $5 charge but if you only do it 4 times a month its pretty much equal to the TD premium account mentioned above.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

So I will be there for about 3 months and I have a few questions. If anyone has been there that would help.

What is the cheapest way to take out cash? I talked to my bank CIBC and the guy told me it was $5 to take out cash from debit machines. I am unsure about my Visa (forgot to ask), but I assume it is the same amount.


Thanks.

When I was ~7 years old, my mother told me that 'a couple' meant two and 'a few' meant 3-5. Are you calling my mama a liar?

[getbak]

I posted similar information in another thread earlier today, but I'll repeat the basic idea here. I went to Europe last spring and, as an anal over-planner, did a lot of research into this very question.



I did not find a single website that recommended using traveler's cheques. In fact, almost all of them specifically say not to use them because they are not widely accepted, and can often be difficult to cash. Usually, a bank is the only place that will accept a traveler's cheque, and they'll charge you a service fee for doing so.

The main advantage of using traveler's cheques is supposed to be that you can use them the same as cash at any store and the only fee is what it costs to buy them (free for AMA members, and certain bank account holders). If you have to pay a fee to cash the cheque, you lose the advantage of carrying them.

I have used traveler's cheques extensively in the USA (where it's no problem to use them same as cash pretty much anywhere), but I didn't even try in Europe because of all the warnings. I also never saw anyone try to use one for payment, so I can't even tell you what I observed.

If anyone posts here saying they traveled through Europe using traveler's cheques without any difficulties, they would honestly be the first person I've ever seen say that (and I was looking for any information that said using traveler's cheques would be just as easy in Europe as it in the States because it was what I had originally planned on doing).



The big thing that Visa is trying to push now is a "Travel Cash" card, which they promote as basically the evolution of the traveler's cheque, but when you crunch the numbers, it's hard to see how it's a good value.

AMA sells them if you're a member: http://www.ama.ab.ca/cps/rde/xchg/am...a_Travel_Money

Here's the fee info for them: http://www.travelex.com/ca/personal/...asp?content=cp

• $4.50 to reload it (per transaction)
• $2 to withdraw from it overseas (per transaction)
• 5% foreign exchange markup (on top of the standard bank exchange rate)

You can also use the card just like any other Visa credit card, but you're limited to the amount of money you've pre-loaded onto it (I believe you'll save the withdrawl fee though if you pay the merchant directly with it, but I'm not positive).

If you have a normal credit card, with a decent limit (and the means to pay it off in full when it comes due), you'd be better off just using it. With a regular Visa, you have a 3 week grace period for paying it off (assuming you don't carry a balance) before being charged interest; they don't charge you $4.50 every time you want to put cash against your account; and the foreign exchange markup on regular Visa/Mastercard purchases is "only" 2.5% compared to the Travel Card's 5%. The only problem is if you do a cash advance against your Visa or Mastercard, you pay interest immediately, and (I believe) pay the standard $5 transaction fee for using a foreign ATM.



What I found was by-far the best option for me was the previously mentioned "Select Service" account at TD-Canada Trust: http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/select.jsp

It costs $25 per month to have it (or free if a minimum balance of $5000 is kept in it), but you pay no other transaction fees to withdraw money from the account. You only pay the current exchange rate for the day of the transaction. I believe RBC has a similar account, but it's $30 per month (when I was looking, none of the other banks in Canada had anything similar).

This was by far the cheapest and easiest way to have access to money when I was in Europe (I didn't have any problems at any ATM anywhere, although, I only used the major banks, and not any random convenience store ATMs), and because there are no fees per transaction, I didn't have to worry about taking out a lot of cash at once.

As was mentioned, if you make sure you only do 4 transactions in a month, you'll only pay $20 in "foreign ATM" charges on you regular bank account (plus whatever fees you already pay for it), but limiting yourself to 4 transactions per month means you have to withdraw a week's worth of cash per transaction. That's a lot of cash to be carrying around, especially if you're buying every meal (and drinks, if you're so inclined) and paying for your room every night with it. With the TD account, you can make one withdrawal per day, or even many per day (sometimes you drink more than you had planned, or buy something on impulse), and not have to worry about wasting money on transaction fees.

You could go the route of using your credit card for most transactions and using cash sparingly (this is what I do at home because it's much easier and ultimately cheaper because I pay off my credit card every month), the only problem with this is the previously-mentioned "premium" that Visa and Mastercard tack onto the exchange rate. They don't tell you that they're charging a 2.5% markup on the regular exchange rate (unless you read the microscopic print in your cardholder agreement -- which I did, told you I was anal), but they do it.

I did use my credit card for the occasional large purchase if I didn't have enough cash on hand, so I did a side-by-side comparison of my statements on days where I purchased something on my Mastercard and withdrew cash from an ATM in the same day (sometimes within an hour of each other), and the exchange rate on the Mastercard was always a little over 2% higher than the exchange rate on the cash withdrawal from the bank account.



The only thing that's cheaper is to carry enough cash for the entire trip because you never pay a transaction fee, and you'll get the best possible exchange rate. The biggest problem with this option is that you're carrying a lot of cash, and if you get mugged, you're screwed (and if anyone finds out you're carrying that much cash, you will probably get mugged).



For comparison's sake, let's take a look at spending 1000€ in one month the various ways (assuming you withdraw 100€ at a time from the ATM)...

Visa TravelMoney Card:

• $4.50 charge to load money onto the card (flat) = $4.50
• $2 per transaction (flat) x 10 transactions = $20
• 5% markup on exchange rate = $50 (above exchange rate)
• TOTAL: $74.50 (plus bank exchange rate to convert CAD to Euro)

Combination of Withdrawals from regular bank account and Credit Card for purchases (assume 800€ on CC, and 200€ for cash)

• $5 per withdrawal transaction x 2 = $10
• 2.5% markup on exchange rate (CC) = $20
• TOTAL: $30 (plus bank exchange rate to convert CAD to Euro)

Combination of Withdrawals from regular bank account and Credit Card for purchases (assume 500€ on CC, and 500€ for cash)

• $5 per withdrawal transaction x 5 = $25
• 2.5% markup on exchange rate (CC) = $12.50
• TOTAL: $37.50 (plus bank exchange rate to convert CAD to Euro)

Cash withdrawals from TD-CT "Select" account

• $25 monthly service fee (unlimited transactions) = $25
• 0% markup on exchange rate = $0
• TOTAL: $25 (plus bank exchange rate to convert CAD to Euro)

[3 Justin 3]

Well then, it seems that the TD way is the best way and cheapest way. The problem is I have the $5000, but I will be spending it so I will have to pay $25 a month, unless I put my bonds into the account, which would suffice, but I wouldn't be able to (won't bother explaining why).

To answer the other questions, I will be travelling everywhere (12 countries). I will phone, or go to a TD bank this weekend, and see what is what, and may just transfer my money there then.

The other problem is, I would prefer to use my CC, but my limit is a measily $500, so I use it a week and then must go to a internet cafe to pay it off, and do this 9 times while I am there (once a week).

And getbak, I won't be taking Traveller's Cheques, I have read as well that they are next to useless there (only banks take them, for the most part), even though Visa told me to use them. Oh, and if you stayed in Hostels, got any suggestions from where you stayed? All I have right now is Berlin booked!

[Berger_4_]

I just got back from Europe (seriously, plane landed at 5:30 Edmonton time) and one place I have to recommend is Croatia. Beautiful beautiful place. We never made it all the way to Dubrovnik, just to Split, but it was still awesome. If you've got the time, head up to Plitvice lakes...so nice!

[OilersBaby]

I went to Spain a few months ago and found that ATMs had the best rates (better than going to currency exchange places and not everyone accepts travelers checks). I'm supposed to be going to Germany in a few weeks (I might stay if my dad's not doing good)........and if I go wiht my husband then we're going to do the same thing. ATM.

[3 Justin 3]

Cool thanks. Just out of curiosity who backpacked it, and who used hotels? The first 2 weeks I am with my mom and brother, and my dad my join a week later, and we will be using hotels. After that if my dad comes/stay's, we will use hostels, and then I will hostel it until I leave in the first week of November. I can't wait, since I want to see Germany badly, and Stonehenge (October 30 though!), among other things.

How much did you guys live off of? I am doing 75 Euro a day, which would go towards hostel (around 17-25), food, museums, bus fair, etc.

[Hack&Lube]

Bank machines won't neccessarily work with your debit card. For a good backup, have somebody wire western union to you in train stations.

You can't really have a set budget for every place since prices fluctuate wildly. I've seen 50 euro hostels in the more modern and expensive western europe. Beer is cheap though.

[Kybosh]

Your bank should have a list of atm's worldwide that your card should work on. I'm pretty sure most banks in Canada recommend that you only use atm's with the "Plus" symbol on them when abroad. Look for the symbol on th back of your debit card.

http://www.dochara.com/images/cirrus-plus.gif

Another thing to consider is that the atm's in Europe require a 4 digit pin code. If you have a 5 digit pin code it won't work and you should get that changed before leaving.

**I would be living the high life at 75 euro a day. Europe can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be depending on where you go and what you like to do.**

[SebC]

Originally Posted by @theCBE

I used my CIBC VISA and my RBC VISA all the time when I was in Europe and neither of them charged me any "administration charge". It might be specific to the type of card you get. The exchange rates I got with them were pretty good as well. Far better than any of the exchange rates I would get from currency exchange booths.

As for cash I used my debit card to take out cash from any machine that had PLUS whenever I needed too, usually 200-250 euro's at a time. It was little enough so that if it got stolen I wouldn't be totally screwed but enough cash that I only had to take it out once a week at the most. I tried to use my credit card as much as possible. It was a $5 charge but if you only do it 4 times a month its pretty much equal to the TD premium account mentioned above.

Looks to me like CIBC still has the currency exchange surcharge. Either you're getting special treatment somehow or you didn't check your bills closely enough.

http://www.cibc.com/ca/visa/article-...es-n-fees.html

Foreign currency transactions:

You are charged the same conversion rate CIBC must pay, plus an administration fee of 2.5% of the converted amount, on both debits and credits.

TD doesn't have this charge and still gives you a competitive exchange rate. Of course, what this means is that 3 Justin 3 should switch his credit card to TD as well. Which means give yourself enough time for them to get the new card to you before you leave.

[3 Justin 3]

...so I should switch everything over to TD? Ergg...this is something I didn't want to do 2 weeks prior. Thanks for the help then, I see this is clearly my best option.

[SebC]

2 weeks? Make sure you can get it in time before you make the switch. Might have to keep your CIBC VISA and just try to pay everything in cash.

[getbak]

When you open the account, they'll ask if you want a Visa card too and it takes about a week to get the card. If you do it early next week, it shouldn't be a problem to get it in time.

[3 Justin 3]

I am going Tuesday (closed Monday) and I am going to ask to open an account and apply/transfer my card. I just got my first Visa a month ago, so asking for another won't look too good, or else I will get another low-ball limit (I asked $5000, because of my trip (didn't mention it, didn't seem necessary) and they gave me the minimum, $500).

As of now I am thinking to keep my CIBC Visa (not enough time), and just pay everything debit (I know the system needs to accept PLUS).

With the TD Select Service account I can withdraw technically everyday overseas and never pay a penny (until I go under $5,000), so I will open that up on Tuesday. Good thing I make this thread, or I would have lost like $100 in charges and fees.

Thanks for the help.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Bank machines won't neccessarily work with your debit card. For a good backup, have somebody wire western union to you in train stations.

You can't really have a set budget for every place since prices fluctuate wildly. I've seen 50 euro hostels in the more modern and expensive western europe. Beer is cheap though.

My hostels are around 18-25 Euro in Germany so far, and I have checked prices around, and since I am going in the "Off Season" or the tail end of High Season the rates drop, and there are less crowds.

I forgot all about Western Union, I will check the rates on that!


Before I forget, how do I transfer my money from CIBC to TD? Is there an electronic way I can do it? I feel hesitant to walk out with that much cash (I won't mention how much). It'll make quite a wad if I do all 20's though...

[getbak]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Before I forget, how do I transfer my money from CIBC to TD? Is there an electronic way I can do it? I feel hesitant to walk out with $5500 in cash. That'll make quite a wad if I do all 20's though... The $1000 Bill exists still right? Either way, they put it into an envelope and it is a 10 second walk to my car.

The $1000 bill was discontinued at least a decade ago. I would ask for a cashier's cheque from CIBC, but you might have to pay for it (since it's CIBC, who love to charge you for everything possible, I'd almost guarantee you'll have to pay for it). 55 hundred dollar bills wouldn't be that thick, but I can understand not wanting to carry that much cash.