Alberta Traffic Safety Act does not apply to Gilles Caron (Francophone) - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

jolinar of malkshor · 07-03-2008, 11:36 PM

Alberta's justice minister is reviewing a provincial court decision to strike down a 2003 traffic ticket issued to a francophone trucker because it was written only in English.
Judge Leo Wenden ruled this week that Alberta's Languages Act and Traffic Safety Act do not apply to Gilles Caron because they are not written in French

http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...UZlRVbZDSEGK5w

Really? The Traffic Safety Act does not apply to this dude? Way to give someone the unfettered ability to drive however they darn well feel.

Resolute 14 · 07-04-2008, 07:58 AM

Good god.

Is one of the courses you take in law school "Lack of common sense 101"?

Iowa_Flames_Fan · 07-04-2008, 08:30 AM

Well, obviously traffic laws should apply to everyone--their purpose is to keep the public safe, and that's a principle you'd think would have some bearing here.

But really--isn't the simple answer to just print traffic tickets in both official languages? There are people in Canada who speak French and not much English, just as there are many who speak English and not much French. If you got a traffic ticket printed only in French, wouldn't you feel entitled to an English version too?

This does seem like a bit of a storm in a teacup though. I've heard of fighting traffic tickets--but before the Supreme Court?

BlackArcher101 · 07-04-2008, 08:38 AM

Funny, he had trouble with a simple ticket not being in French, but yet seems to find his way through the legal system just fine (which I think is worse if a francophone).

calculoso · 07-04-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

If you got a traffic ticket printed only in French, wouldn't you feel entitled to an English version too?

Not if I was in Quebec... I'd expect it to be French.

Just another example of courts going way out of the realm of common sense and into 'technicality land'. It's brutal!

calculoso · 07-04-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Funny, he had trouble with a simple ticket not being in French, but yet seems to find his way through the legal system just fine (which I think is worse if a francophone).

Not to mention Alberta traffic signs, stores, restaurants, etc...

Iowa_Flames_Fan · 07-04-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calculoso

Not if I was in Quebec... I'd expect it to be French.

Just another example of courts going way out of the realm of common sense and into 'technicality land'. It's brutal!

I guess to me common sense dictates that if you're issued a citation in Canada, it should be printed in both of Canada's official languages. It's not like we need to print every language in the world--just two. Plenty of anglophones live in Quebec, and plenty of francophones live in Alberta.

For the record, I'm not defending the guy. I think he should have just paid his ticket and written a letter to the editor about it. But I guess I don't understand what principle is being defended by NOT including French on traffic tickets.

jolinar of malkshor · 07-04-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I guess to me common sense dictates that if you're issued a citation in Canada, it should be printed in both of Canada's official languages. It's not like we need to print every language in the world--just two. Plenty of anglophones live in Quebec, and plenty of francophones live in Alberta.

For the record, I'm not defending the guy. I think he should have just paid his ticket and written a letter to the editor about it. But I guess I don't understand what principle is being defended by NOT including French on traffic tickets.

I don't know for sure but I am going to make the statement that there aren't that many francophones living in Alberta, maybe plenty of bilingualists, but not francophones.

Resolute 14 · 07-04-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I guess to me common sense dictates that if you're issued a citation in Canada, it should be printed in both of Canada's official languages. It's not like we need to print every language in the world--just two. Plenty of anglophones live in Quebec, and plenty of francophones live in Alberta.

Common sense dictates that if you break a law in Canada, you pay the penalty. This jackass could easily have gone to a government office to have the ticket clarified. Not to mention that if he is driving a truck in Western Canada, I would feel 99% confident in stating that he knows English.

Quite frankly, the judge in this case should be disbarred for gross stupidity.

Iowa_Flames_Fan · 07-04-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I don't know for sure but I am going to make the statement that there aren't that many francophones living in Alberta, maybe plenty of bilingualists, but not francophones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Albertan

Iowa_Flames_Fan · 07-04-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Common sense dictates that if you break a law in Canada, you pay the penalty.

Can't argue with that. And as grounds for getting out of a ticket go, these are pretty weak. It's not like traffic rules in Quebec are vastly different from those in Alberta.

I'm just saying--this silliness with taking it to the Supreme Court aside--why not have French on the ticket too? What's the harm?

moon · 07-04-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I'm just saying--this silliness with taking it to the Supreme Court aside--why not have French on the ticket too? What's the harm?

The only harm is that it is disgusting that we have French as an "official" language anyways.

Solution here is easy, get rid of French as an official language, boot all the Francophones out and we have a pretty decent country left over.

habernac · 07-04-2008, 11:29 AM

ah, always nice to see that moon still has his wonderful redneck opinions. It'd really kill you if the flames had a francophone player who was a star, wouldn't it?

jolinar of malkshor · 07-04-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Albertan

Thanks for that post, although, it is from wiki, there are no actual numbers and it doesn't really say if they are stictly francophones or just french speaking people that can also speak english.

Jayems · 07-04-2008, 12:08 PM

larf.

moon · 07-04-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habernac

ah, always nice to see that moon still has his wonderful redneck opinions. It'd really kill you if the flames had a francophone player who was a star, wouldn't it?

Meh.. so long as he didn't whine about the lack of questions in French or lack of signs in French or that he was special because he was French it wouldn't bother me.

Although if he played like Tanguay then yes it would kill me.

Resolute 14 · 07-04-2008, 12:13 PM

Having been to nearly all of the communities listed in that Wikipedia article, I can tell you that the number of unilingual francophones in those areas is trivial. Most are bilingual, though French is their first language.

IFF - Why not have French on the ticket as well? The better question is "why"? Federally, Canada is a bilingual country. Provincally, Alberta is not. Given this is a provincial domain, not federal, I find this idiot's argument as stupid as if he went to the US and tried to weasel his way out of a ticket by arguing it wasn't in French.

Igottago · 07-04-2008, 12:22 PM

I don't think this even warrants a debate on bilingualism...all it is is some guy who didn't want to pay a ticket, and some dumb ass judge getting suckered into it.

Iowa_Flames_Fan · 07-04-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Having been to nearly all of the communities listed in that Wikipedia article, I can tell you that the number of unilingual francophones in those areas is trivial. Most are bilingual, though French is their first language.

IFF - Why not have French on the ticket as well? The better question is "why"? Federally, Canada is a bilingual country. Provincally, Alberta is not. Given this is a provincial domain, not federal, I find this idiot's argument as stupid as if he went to the US and tried to weasel his way out of a ticket by arguing it wasn't in French.

Well, I guess if having French on the ticket somehow interfered with your personal enjoyment of getting a citation, you might have a point. But it doesn't. It doesn't affect you at all.

Again--I'm not defending the guy. He's clearly out to lunch, and the judge's decision seems to me to set a precedent of unequal application of the law to different ethnic/linguistic groups, so I have no doubt it will be struck down.

For me, it's just a question of courtesy and being an open society that respects diversity and difference. So in that sense, the question really is "why not?" Canada has two official languages. Alberta is part of Canada. Some people who live in Alberta are Francophones--and while they are probably bilingual, for things like understanding their legal rights after they've been charged with a traffic offense, they'd prefer to inform themselves in French. So as a courtesy, I see no reason not to allow them to do that. It doesn't affect me at all--I don't have to read my tickets in French, but he has the option to if he chooses.

flip · 07-04-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calculoso

Not if I was in Quebec... I'd expect it to be French.

Just another example of courts going way out of the realm of common sense and into 'technicality land'. It's brutal!

In fact in Quebec it would be illegal for it to even have English on it!! Talk about a weird double standard, all for the sake of preserving French culture.