Man kills grandson in hunting accident...with an AK-47? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Displaced Flames fan · 06-12-2008, 04:27 PM

I'm a hunter. Though I haven't hunted a lot lately, I grew up as a responsible hunter. I have never hunted with anyone who was using an assault rifle. What is the point?

http://www.ksat.com/news/16589436/detail.html

Any half wit knows you don't walk behind someone with a loaded gun through the woods. Especially an automatic weapon.

The grandfather SHOULD be charged. Completely preventable.

Dan02 · 06-12-2008, 04:29 PM

now i must admit my gun knowledge is not extensive, but don't most guns have safetys to prevent accidental discharge like this?

Displaced Flames fan · 06-12-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan02

now i must admit my gun knowledge is not extensive, but don't most guns have safetys to prevent accidental discharge like this?

Exactly, but I have no idea if an AK-47 has a safety or not.

CaptainCrunch · 06-12-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Exactly, but I have no idea if an AK-47 has a safety or not.

It has a very good safety on it.

Most idiots walk around with the safety off so that they can shoot quicker and they don't scare someone off since turning the safety off produces a fairly loud metallic click.

Azure · 06-12-2008, 04:38 PM

You could kill someone with 'any' loaded gun if you're not careful with it.

This has nothing to do with assault rifles.

Bring_Back_Shantz · 06-12-2008, 04:39 PM

Okay a few things:
1. Just because it's an AK-47 doesn't mean that it's a fully automatic rifle. In fact up untill the ban was lifted about a year ago it was ilegal to own a fully automatic rifle, so there's a pretty good chance that this one was only a semi-auto.
2. Americans hunt with a lot stranger things than assault rifles (it really isn't that far off from any number of short barrel .30 cal bush guns), hell some states have pistol seasons
3. Why should the grandfather be charged? It seems to me that it was an accident. Yes he should have had the safety on, but it's also the grandson's responsibility to not be walking in front of someone with a loaded gun.

There are several basic rules to firearm safety when your hunting and they aren't all the responsibility of the person with the gun. Yes most of them are, and in this case the grandfather clearly missed a few specifically to keep the safety on, to make sure that you've got control of the barrel and to make sure that it doesn't point at anyone. Likewise it's up to the people around him to make sure that they don't put themselves into a dangerous position, which the grandson clearly did. Is it really his fault? Not enought that I don't feel bad for him, but it surely isn't a case that warrants charges against the grandfather.

Locke · 06-12-2008, 04:47 PM

What was he hunting with an AK-47? The Germans?

Knut · 06-12-2008, 04:57 PM

http://www.geekologie.com/2008/06/wo...ng_automat.php The Kids will fight back!!!

In all seriousness.... that is horrible.

llama64 · 06-12-2008, 05:00 PM

Pretty certain one the cardinal rules of gun safety was to never point a loaded gun at another human being. The Grandfather was behind the trigger and should have known where the heck his gun was pointing.

Displaced Flames fan · 06-12-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Okay a few things:
1. Just because it's an AK-47 doesn't mean that it's a fully automatic rifle. In fact up untill the ban was lifted about a year ago it was ilegal to own a fully automatic rifle, so there's a pretty good chance that this one was only a semi-auto.

What is the point of owning a semi-automatic AK-47? Seriously. What advantages does that version of the weapon offer a sportsman over conventional hunting rifles that are acutally designed for, well, hunting? It's a crude gun.

Quote:

2. Americans hunt with a lot stranger things than assault rifles (it really isn't that far off from any number of short barrel .30 cal bush guns), hell some states have pistol seasons

Yes, yes they do. It's actually advantageous to hunt certain game with pistols. Mountain lions, raccoons, ....anything that is hunted by dog and tree method. Again, there is no reason I can think of that an AK-47 would be someone's weapon of choice in the field.

Quote:

3. Why should the grandfather be charged? It seems to me that it was an accident. Yes he should have had the safety on, but it's also the grandson's responsibility to not be walking in front of someone with a loaded gun.

The kid was 14. Should he be well versed in hunter safety? Absolutely...whether he was acutally carrying a weapon or not. The grandfather is an adult. He HAS to be responsible for his firearm...and he wasn't. It's easily negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter IMO. If they weren't related he probably would've been charged.

Quote:

There are several basic rules to firearm safety when your hunting and they aren't all the responsibility of the person with the gun. Yes most of them are, and in this case the grandfather clearly missed a few specifically to keep the safety on, to make sure that you've got control of the barrel and to make sure that it doesn't point at anyone. Likewise it's up to the people around him to make sure that they don't put themselves into a dangerous position, which the grandson clearly did. Is it really his fault? Not enought that I don't feel bad for him, but it surely isn't a case that warrants charges against the grandfather

.

I'm well aware what is involved with firearm safety, thanks.

I'll raise another question here. It's June, I don't live in Texas, but I can't imagine that any game of any kind is in season right now.

Azure · 06-12-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What is the point of owning a semi-automatic AK-47? Seriously.

For hunting? You might have a case there, although I would imagine shooting gophers would be pretty fun with an assault rifle.

But people can own any gun they want, and if there are no restrictions on it, hunt with it if they like.

Again, this is not about 'assault' rifles.....any gun that is used with improperly could result in someone being killed.

RougeUnderoos · 06-12-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The kid was 14. Should he be well versed in hunter safety? Absolutely...whether he was acutally carrying a weapon or not. The grandfather is an adult. He HAS to be responsible for his firearm...and he wasn't. It's easily negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter IMO. If they weren't related he probably would've been charged.

I'm with you -- the old guy should have known what he was doing and he was at fault here, but what is charging him going to accomplish? This incident has probably ruined his life as it is and going to jail isn't going to help anyone. One of this boy's parents will have a son in the grave and a father in prison.

I don't know, I guess people have to be held accountable for their accidents, but I think laying charges would make a bad situation worse, and nobody benefits.

But geez, what an idiot.

Displaced Flames fan · 06-12-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

For hunting? You might have a case there, although I would imagine shooting gophers would be pretty fun with an assault rifle.

But people can own any gun they want, and if there are no restrictions on it, hunt with it if they like.

Again, this is not about 'assault' rifles.....any gun that is used with improperly could result in someone being killed.

What are you trying to say...you've repeated this now.

Of course people are killed quite often in hunting accidents with other weapons. I never suggested otherwise. The fact that he had an AK-47, I guess to me that just screams idiot.

Displaced Flames fan · 06-12-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm with you -- the old guy should have known what he was doing and he was at fault here, but what is charging him going to accomplish? This incident has probably ruined his life as it is and going to jail isn't going to help anyone. One of this boy's parents will have a son in the grave and a father in prison.

I don't know, I guess people have to be held accountable for their accidents, but I think laying charges would make a bad situation worse, and nobody benefits.

But geez, what an idiot.

He could get off with no jail time I'm sure. Take his guns away and his hunting privleges. Forever.

Azure · 06-12-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What are you trying to say...you've repeated this now.

Of course people are killed quite often in hunting accidents with other weapons. I never suggested otherwise. The fact that he had an AK-47, I guess to me that just screams idiot.

No it doesn't scream idiot that he shot his grandson with an AK-47 instead of a .22.

My point is that without proper gun safety, car safety, work safety....people CAN get killed. This is not about guns....but about someone not being 'safe.'

Azure · 06-12-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

He could get off with no jail time I'm sure. Take his guns away and his hunting privleges. Forever.

Come on.

Thats like saying we should take away someone drivers license because he got into an accident, survived, but killed his grandson who was with him at the time.

Sure, it would be preventable, but don't you think the guy has enough to deal with right now? I'm pretty sure he is remorseful.

Displaced Flames fan · 06-12-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

No it doesn't scream idiot that he shot his grandson with an AK-47 instead of a .22.

My point is that without proper gun safety, car safety, work safety....people CAN get killed. This is not about guns....but about someone not being 'safe.'

You're missing my point.

The guy was 'hunting' with an AK-47 which leads me to believe, based on my experience with hunting and hunters and the tools of the trade, that he is an idiot.

The fact he killed his grandson with an AK-47 doesn't add anything to the equation at all.

I'm not some gun control whacko screaming to take away the guns! People are dying!

Let's put it this way, if I was going hunting with someone and they brought along a buddy and he said, "Hey I'm bringing my AK". I'd say, "Hey, no you're not. In fact, you're not coming at all."

I've known people who thought hunting meant getting drunk and shooting animals while using spotlights. Idiots. I would put people who use AK's for anything other than target shooting in the same category.

Displaced Flames fan · 06-12-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Come on.

Thats like saying we should take away someone drivers license because he got into an accident, survived, but killed his grandson who was with him at the time.

Sure, it would be preventable, but don't you think the guy has enough to deal with right now? I'm pretty sure he is remorseful.

If a person was DRUNK and got into a car wreck and killed his 14 year old grandson you're god damn right he should lose his driver's license! What world do you live in?

Azure · 06-12-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You're missing my point.

The guy was 'hunting' with an AK-47 which leads me to believe, based on my experience with hunting and hunters and the tools of the trade, that he is an idiot.

The fact he killed his grandson with an AK-47 doesn't add anything to the equation at all.

I'm not some gun control whacko screaming to take away the guns! People are dying!

Let's put it this way, if I was going hunting with someone and they brought along a buddy and he said, "Hey I'm bringing my AK". I'd say, "Hey, no you're not. In fact, you're not coming at all."

I've known people who thought hunting meant getting drunk and shooting animals while using spotlights. Idiots. I would put people who use AK's for anything other than target shooting in the same category.

Well obviously you have a problem with assault rifles. I know a lot of people who hunt with them, or take them along for some target practice when they go camping. They've never had an issue. And they're certainly not 'idiots.'

For all you know the guy was probably just out for some target practice with his grandson. Considering that the hunting season is over and all.

Gun safety is the issue here, not some 'idiot' who killed his grandson because he was hunting with an AK-47.

Azure · 06-12-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

If a person was DRUNK and got into a car wreck and killed his 14 year old grandson you're god damn right he should lose his driver's license! What world do you live in?

You might have a point had the grandfather been drunk. Or anything 'close' to that. But he wasn't.

We're talking about an accident here, not vehicular homicide.