Landscaping questions

[Ironhorse]

So I'm building a flower bed along one side of our house. It is on an existing strip of grass, and I'm building a small wall (about 14") to contain the new bed.

I need some CP advice: can I just lay some of that black landscape fabric on the top of the grass (effectively killing it?), and then backfill the flower bed with top soil, or do I have to remove the grass first? There will probably be about 12" of soil on top of the landscape fabric when I'm done. Also, is the "commercial grade" of landscape fabric that much better, or will the Joe Schmoe variety suffice? I noticed there is quite a price difference.

Any input appreciated!

[Ford Prefect]

I'd spray it with Roundup and wait for the grass to die first, then put the flower bed dirt on top of the dead grass. Grass is nasty stuff ... it'll find a way through landscape fabric if you don't kill it first. I'd still use the landscape fabric on top of the dead grass too to discourage any other weed that might want to grow through in the future.

[Temporary_User]

You'll want to remove the grass.
I don't know how big the flower bed will be, so you could either dig up the grass a bit, or rent a rototiller (Please don't simply spray it with roundup).
No idea on the differences between the landscape fabric, but I would still lay some down even after removing the grass.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

You'll want to remove the grass.
I don't know how big the flower bed will be, so you could either dig up the grass a bit, or rent a rototiller (Please don't simply spray it with roundup).
No idea on the differences between the landscape fabric, but I would still lay some down even after removing the grass.

What's wrong with Roundup?

[habernac]

pesticides are never good, especially if you use a lot of it.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by habernac

pesticides are never good, especially if you use a lot of it.

Roundup is a herbicide, not a pesticide. As long as it's used right I don't think it's that bad of a product. You don't want it getting into any water supplies, but other than that it has utility as long as it's used right.

[Saint Troy]

Lay down some newspaper on top of the grass, and then mound the dirt quite high. I would mix a bit of manure into the topsoil as this helps the nutrient level, which equals happier plants. The grass underneath will rot and that's also very good for plants and soil.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

You'll want to remove the grass.
I don't know how big the flower bed will be, so you could either dig up the grass a bit, or rent a rototiller (Please don't simply spray it with roundup).
No idea on the differences between the landscape fabric, but I would still lay some down even after removing the grass.

Depending on the size of the flower bed you want a sod cutter, and then a rototiller, but not a rototiller alone. The sod cutter is great to get rid of the grass....it will come back, but to make an instant garden that is what you want.

[Shazam]

Just get a sharp manual sod cutter and peel away the grass. It's already June. If you decide to cover the grass, you'll be waiting until next year before that grass is dead. And then you'll have to peel it away anyhow - grass can remain dormant for a very long time.

[Jayems]

I'm with the remove the sod clan here. Rent a sod cutter if it's big.. if not, get out a flat bladed shovel and make 1" cuts down, at about 2' per piece. It'll take you no time. It's just disposing of the sod is the problem. I'm sure your neighbours swimming pool is adequate, however.

[McMack]

Digging out the sod is ideal, but it can be difficult to dispose of.

The landsapcing fabric will keep out the grass, but you will also be limiting the root system of everything you plant on top of it.

I've learned myself that grass is horribly invasive, and more difficult to control than any weed in your yard. I had a perennial bed that was framed by landscaping ties, the roots from my lawn snuck down under the ties and up into my perennials. I had to dig out my plants and try to untangle the grass roots from the roots of my plants and replant them. Brutal.

[Madman]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Just get a sharp manual sod cutter and peel away the grass. It's already June. If you decide to cover the grass, you'll be waiting until next year before that grass is dead. And then you'll have to peel it away anyhow - grass can remain dormant for a very long time.

Agreed.

Roundup? Newspaper?

Cutting out sod is not rocket science and definitely does not need anything other than manual labour. As suggested earlier, if it is a fairly large area go rent a big power cutter - but even then, the area would need to be really big to make it worth your while.

[ken0042]

Another vote for dig the grass out.

Keep in mind that grass is actually a weed, and will continue to grow as a weed. When doing by flower bed I also used edging to keep the neighbouring grass roots from spreading, but ever spring I still have to pull grass.

[Ironhorse]

Thanks for all the input. We decided to dig out the grass, which ended up being not too bad, since everything was wet anyway; it came up pretty easily with strips.

I've also found the answer to the landscape fabric. The "regular" version is good for 5 years, and the "pro" version is good for 30 years.

[Shazam]

Are you putting fabric where the grass was, and then putting dirt on top of the fabric? If so, why?

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Are you putting fabric where the grass was, and then putting dirt on top of the fabric? If so, why?

To keep the weeds out of the flower bed.

[ken0042]

I really don't think landscaping fabric under the flowers is a good idea. Are you never going to plant any bushes or perennials?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

To keep the weeds out of the flower bed.

Uh, that ain't gonna keep the weeds out. Many weeds spread via seed, which land on top of the dirt and germinate from there. Putting landcape fabric a foot under the dirt isn't going to help.

Also, many desirable plants put roots well below twelve inches of soil.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I really don't think landscaping fabric under the flowers is a good idea. Are you never going to plant any bushes or perennials?

The flower bed is 20' x 4', along the side of the garage. I don't think there will be any bushes in there, except for maybe a rosebush or something down the road. It is mostly for my wife's flowers. There will be about 12" of dirt on top -- is that not sufficient?

[ken0042]

Like Shazam said, all the fabric will do is stop those weeds that spread by roots. The only ones I know that do that are grasses, and they don't root deeper than a couple of inches.

My rose bushes are 1 year old and have roots at least that deep. My tiger lillies are into their 5th season and they have roots going down at least 12 or 15 inches.

Landscape fabric is designed to be placed on the surface of the soil; like between gravel and soil. Not burried under it.