Still too many [mod edit] people with quads, 4x4s?

[fredr123]

Last year about this time there was a lively discussion about the use/abuse of various areas around the city for mud bogging, 4x4ing, etc.

This year, it seems McLean Creek was the focus of most of the media attention:
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...e-98e9fd08a02c
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...15416-sun.html

So, are things getting better or did everything shift from Indian Graves, Ghost and Waiparous? Is there any way we can keep a few ######s (it's only a small group among the thousands of campers that cause the majority of problems) from ruining things for the rest of us? Won't somebody please think of the children?

[4X4]

Lol... Did you throw in that mod edit on purpose or was it actually a mod edit?

I heard mostly good stuff this year. I watched 3 or 4 different news casts in the last 24 hours and they were all relatively positive except for the chick on BT this morning.

Mclean was very tame this year. The 4x4 area was very full, but there were no accidents or injuries. The party side had it's share of fights and whatnot, but that's to be expected (more or less).

There were RCMP, Sherrifs and preservation officers everywhere, and TBQH, I was happy about it. Things were under control, but we still got to have our fun and didn't end up in the media looking like a bunch of jackasses like last year because of a few ######s.

If it stays this way, us 4x4 and OHV enthusiasts will get to keep our spots, and the dum dums that just show up to get wasted will stop coming because it's no fun when the cops make you pour out your beer.

Good job, coppers!

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Lol... Did you throw in that mod edit on purpose or was it actually a mod edit?

I was poking fun at last year's thread.

What was the deal with the locked gate? They had some angry campers on the news last night but I had a hard time feeling sorry for them trudging through private land.

No stories about 17 and 18 year old kids wrecking their grad presents this year?

[4X4]

Not sure which locked gate you speak of. There is a locked gate on the 4x4 side that forces you to drive through a mud pit to enter the area. As far as I'm concerned, keep it locked. No 4x4? Then why are you here?
I saw a few cars cautiously making their way in, assuming that they'd open the gate on Monday like they usually do. Maybe they left it locked this year and forced the cars to run the gauntlet in reverse? After a whole weekend of 4x4s and quads driving through it, there's no way a car will get out.

There is some private land around there with locked gates. Maybe people were pissed that farmers were locking their shiz instead of letting people tear up their grazing land?
I don't know, but like I said, it was very under control this year as far as I saw.

[Ford Prefect]

An article in today's Herald quotes a wildlife officer as saying the damage at McLean Creek over the weekend was the worst he's ever seen ... unprecedented was the word used. So that doesn't sound like things went too well this weekend.

In that same Herald article is says that locked gate is owned by Husky Oil, which would imply it's a private road. People were backed up at the gate because it was the only way out from where they'd been camping ... all other exits routes had been rendered impassable by mud bogging and such. It also says that people had cut the lock six times over the weekend. I believe that's called trespassing.

Personally, I find it reprehensible to go out and destroy the wilderness engaging in motorized rec vehicle "sports". If people want to go mud bogging and such, go do it in a farmer's slough. There's no need to rape the wilderness to do it.

[troutman]

I just don't see how driving in mud can be fun. What's the attraction?

Can't we set-aside big mud bogs on the prairie for these enthusiasts? Why do they have to be tearing up the foothills and mountains?

McLean Creek 'ripped to shreds'
Wildlife officer calls damage 'unprecedented'
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...e-98e9fd08a02c

After another long weekend of mud-bogging, a wildlife officer is calling the environmental damage at McLean Creek "unprecedented."

"The environmental destruction being done here is, well, it's hard to find a word for it," said Ken Mackay of Alberta Fish and Wildlife. "It just keeps getting worse every year.

Enforcement officers with RCMP, Fish and Wildlife, Sustainable Resources and the M.D. of Rockyview handed out more than 450 tickets in McLean Creek on the weekend.

"Actually, when it came to the garbage, quite a few people have cleaned up -- we're quite impressed," said Const. Ian Smith of the Cochrane RCMP, "but the ecological destruction is huge. The mud-boggers, that's what caused it.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

An article in today's Herald quotes a wildlife officer as saying the damage at McLean Creek over the weekend was the worst he's ever seen ... unprecedented was the word used. So that doesn't sound like things went too well this weekend.

In that same Herald article is says that locked gate is owned by Husky Oil, which would imply it's a private road. People were backed up at the gate because it was the only way out from where they'd been camping ... all other exits routes had been rendered impassable by mud bogging and such. It also says that people had cut the lock six times over the weekend. I believe that's called trespassing.

Personally, I find it reprehensible to go out and destroy the wilderness engaging in motorized rec vehicle "sports". If people want to go mud bogging and such, go do it in a farmer's slough. There's no need to rape the wilderness to do it.

X2 - amen

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

An article in today's Herald quotes a wildlife officer as saying the damage at McLean Creek over the weekend was the worst he's ever seen ... unprecedented was the word used. So that doesn't sound like things went too well this weekend.

Fair enough. I disagree and so do most of the reports I've read.

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

In that same Herald article is says that locked gate is owned by Husky Oil, which would imply it's a private road. People were backed up at the gate because it was the only way out from where they'd been camping ... all other exits routes had been rendered impassable by mud bogging and such. It also says that people had cut the lock six times over the weekend. I believe that's called trespassing.

I believe that is the same gate I was talking about in my previous post. I've been camping in that area for years. Rangers come around, observe and leave. If they wanted us to stay out of there, they lock the other texas gate that requires a 4x4 to get through. If people are stupid enough to enter through a mud pit, they need to be prepared to leave the way they came in. This means: cars and trailers stay out!

They lock the one gate because it's a clear road easily accessible by cars. It keeps out the riff raff.
There were at least a thousand people in there. Again, if Husky Oil and/or preservation officers wanted us to stay out, it's pretty easy to put up a sign and a gate.

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Personally, I find it reprehensible to go out and destroy the wilderness engaging in motorized rec vehicle "sports". If people want to go mud bogging and such, go do it in a farmer's slough. There's no need to rape the wilderness to do it.

Go do it in a farmer's slough? Wouldn't that be trespassing? Maybe you're unclear on this concept: it is a designated OHV area. It IS OUR AREA to 4x4 in. The Husky Oil side? Maybe not. But the area surrounding it is designated for our hobby. If you don't like it, too bad. I don't like how freaking big our city is, but I'm not railing against people buying houses in the out lying areas.
You make it sound like the whole forest is being destroyed. It's a (relatively) small area designated for a particular use. Just like oil fields, cities and logging. Get over it.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by troutman

I just don't see how driving in mud can be fun. What's the attraction?

Can't we set-aside big mud bogs on the prairie for these enthusiasts? Why do they have to be tearing up the foothills and mountains?

Kind of off-topic (and a shameless plug for those that may be interested), but a group from my home town got together and made a big mud bog pit in town. It's more of a competition than what goes on at McLean Creek.

This hobby is actually a lot more popular than I would have guessed.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by troutman

I just don't see how driving in mud can be fun. What's the attraction?

Can't we set-aside big mud bogs on the prairie for these enthusiasts? Why do they have to be tearing up the foothills and mountains?

How is doing it on the prairie any different? Why is it ok in one place but not in a place already designated?

As for not seeing how it's fun, I don't see how skateboarding is fun or how seal hunting or cross country skiing is fun. Yet all these activities are enjoyed by people in areas designated for that activity.

Why do we play softball? Why do we rip up pristine wilderness to make softball fields?

[Ford Prefect]

4x4 ... I know it's a designated area. I just don't happen to agree that wilderness areas should be designated for such use. A farmer's field is more appropriate ... and yes, that's also private property so obviously would need the land owner's approval. That's usually called rent.

Please don't take my views personally. We are often on the same page about stuff, but on this one we're not, so it would be pointless to get into a whizzing match over something we'll never come to any form of agreement on. Your numbers have a different colour on this topic than mine do.

[troutman]

Wilder-mess to clean up
Rowdy campers and off-roaders wreak havoc in rec areas
ttp://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2008/05/20/5615416-sun.html

Tearing up the mud in four-wheel-drives without brakes and driving while intoxicated in McLean Creek are among the worrisome offences that led police to lay more than 600 charges in southern Alberta campgrounds over the long weekend.

Rowdy McLean Creek campers turned the recreational area southwest of Calgary into a "bush party," marring the long weekend for the majority of well-behaved outdoor enthusiasts, said RCMP Sgt. Patrick Webb.

Province poised to dry up rowdy behaviour with a booze ban, as well-soused stupidity is still leaving a trail of destruction
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...15411-sun.html

Indeed, a long-weekend liquor ban may be looming for many provincial parks and recreation areas in the Calgary area, if early accounts of back-country mayhem, including burned-out cars and a mountain of trash, prove accurate.

Alberta Parks Minister Cindy Ady says she's awaiting a post-weekend post-mortem on campground behaviour before any tough decisions are made, but an alcohol ban for select Calgary-area parks is definitely on the table.

"We'll look at that -- we'll definitely consider furthering the liquor bans," said Ady, who -- along with Sustainable Resources Minister Ted Morton -- is in charge of keeping the peace in Alberta's camping areas.

Park managers are painting a bleak picture of those roughing it in the bush, saying the situation hasn't really improved since last year, when drunken rowdies destroyed wilderness and wetlands with off-road vehicles, leaving mattresses, trash and wrecked cars behind.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Please don't take my views personally. We are often on the same page about stuff, but on this one we're not, so it would be pointless to get into a whizzing match over something we'll never come to any form of agreement on. Your numbers have a different colour on this topic than mine do.

Eh, no offence taken or lobbed. I'm arguing my side and you, yours. Me and troutman got into it pretty good last year and still shake hands when we meet in person. This is an issue that I am compelled to [defend].

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Go do it in a farmer's slough? Wouldn't that be trespassing? Maybe you're unclear on this concept: it is a designated OHV area. It IS OUR AREA to 4x4 in. The Husky Oil side? Maybe not. But the area surrounding it is designated for our hobby. If you don't like it, too bad. I don't like how freaking big our city is, but I'm not railing against people buying houses in the out lying areas.
You make it sound like the whole forest is being destroyed. It's a (relatively) small area designated for a particular use. Just like oil fields, cities and logging. Get over it.

Amen reverend. I am not a big 4x4'er but I have done a bit and it is a blast. I can understand if it not your thing but this is their area to do it. There will always be idiots, with every type of event, who do stuff they are not supposed to do. On the whole, I find people who regularly go to Mclean Creek / Waiporpus are very respectful of the area and do everything they can to make sure they can come back year after year.

It's not like May long is the only time that there is off-roading done in these areas. It happens all summer long. It is just some of the morons who come out and get waaaaaaaay to drunk on may long that sell headlines. The people who lap up these stories and get all bent out of shape only serve to perpetuate the problem.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by 4X4

How is doing it on the prairie any different? Why is it ok in one place but not in a place already designated?

As for not seeing how it's fun, I don't see how skateboarding is fun or how seal hunting or cross country skiing is fun. Yet all these activities are enjoyed by people in areas designated for that activity.

Why do we play softball? Why do we rip up pristine wilderness to make softball fields?

1) On the prairie the yahoos won't be tearing up sensitive areas. The noise won't disturb people, plants and wildlife.

2) What is the big deal about driving around in mud? Explain it to me. I think people can explain why skateboarding, softball, hunting and x-country skiing is fun. Is it about the machines? How does mud enhance the driving experience? Is it a challenge?

3) I've never seen a softball diamond in K-Country. Have you? I've seen golf courses, and I'm not crazy about that.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Why do we play softball?

Umm is this a trick question? Why to drink of course! Silly.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Eh, no offence taken or lobbed. I'm arguing my side and you, yours. Me and troutman got into it pretty good last year and still shake hands when we meet in person. This is an issue that I am compelled to [defend].

Good point. Nothing personal. It is an important discussion, and I don't lump 4X4 in with the trouble-makers.

[tussery]

I have to admit one of the nice things about Texas is their are plenty of land owners that see the value in their land and charge admission for people to go in drive on their land. It is expensive but at least their isn't the whole ordeal of public land being destroyed, it is their land they can use it how they see fit. Then again there is almost no public land in Texas for OHV use.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by troutman

Rowdy McLean Creek campers turned the recreational area southwest of Calgary into a "bush party," marring the long weekend for the majority of well-behaved outdoor enthusiasts, said RCMP Sgt. Patrick Webb.

This is the heart of the issue. Really, nobody would be talking about the 4x4ing that goes on there unless it was coupled with partying and car burning.

If I were in control of the place, I'd start by making a big parking lot at the front and forcing people without 4x4s to get driven in by someone with a 4x4. That'd eliminate half of the idiot kids that are just there to drop E and get f****d up.

Next, have a full time check stop between the car area and the rest of the area. Anyone with open booze or liqour on their breath gets treated like they were on Mcleod Trail, drunk. Off to jail. That would take care of half of the rest of the idiots.

Finally, charge a vehicle entrance fee. Make it worth while (~$20)? And use the cash to pay for some officer overtime and some more dumpsters. I guarantee that these three things combined would keep our activity off the news.


I hate to sound conspiracy theorist, but sometimes I wonder if the powers that be are deliberately not taking some of the obvious actions in hopes that the places just get shut down permanently.

And this argument that it's tearing up pristine wilderness is just wrong. Most of the people that argue from that point of view haven't even been out there. It's a half logged area, first of all. Secondly, there are miles and miles of trails designated for OHVs and 4x4s. Most people stick to the trails because leaving the trail is just stupid. Stupid because you'd either get stuck or you'd hit a tree or a tree stump. And if we got rid of the stupid people..........

[troutman]

^^^^^

Good suggestions.