Klein wants Referendum

[Patek23]

Looks like Kleins a big supporter of gay marriage.

)


Really I don't see how the vote wouldn't go towards gay marriage. I disagree with it but hey if they want to get married than all the power to them.

Liink Here

[Clarkey]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer@Dec 11 2004, 05:27 AM
I disagree with it but hey if they want to get married than all the power to them.

That's a total contradiction. You disagree with it but you support it?

[Patek23]

Originally posted by Clarkey+Dec 11 2004, 05:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Clarkey @ Dec 11 2004, 05:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flaming Homer@Dec 11 2004, 05:27 AM
I disagree with it but hey if they want to get married than all the power to them.

That's a total contradiction. You disagree with it but you support it? [/b][/quote]
Sorry I should re word that. I disagree with being gay, but if they want to get married than I can't stop them and nor would I because it doesn't effect me.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Dec 10 2004, 10:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Dec 10 2004, 10:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

That's a total contradiction. You disagree with it but you support it?

Sorry I should re word that. I disagree with being gay, but if they want to get married than I can't stop them and nor would I because it doesn't effect me. [/b][/quote]
If you don't mind gay marriage becasue it doesn't effect you, why do you disagree with being gay? How does that effect you? Just asking.

[Patek23]

Originally posted by Flame On+Dec 11 2004, 05:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Dec 11 2004, 05:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Sorry I should re word that. I disagree with being gay, but if they want to get married than I can't stop them and nor would I because it doesn't effect me.

If you don't mind gay marriage becasue it doesn't effect you, why do you disagree with being gay? How does that effect you? Just asking. [/b][/quote]
I disagree because men shouldn't be with men, but as long as some guy isn't trying to hit on me (which is asking for a trip to the hospital) he can do however he pleases. And I don't have a problem with the gays either. It's just the fact of being gay that I disagree with.

[Deelow]

Klein needs to get over this and focus on other issues.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer@Dec 10 2004, 11:03 PM
I disagree because men shouldn't be with men, but as long as some guy isn't trying to hit on me (which is asking for a trip to the hospital) he can do however he pleases. And I don't have a problem with the gays either. It's just the fact of being gay that I disagree with.

I've always wondered about this one. What makes you so anxious about a man trying to hit on you that you would violently attack him? Would you do the same if an unattractive woman was hitting on you?

I would understand if the guy is physically aggressive or really pushy that's one thing, but if some dude asks for your phone number or offers to buy you a drink would you really assault and beat him? If so, why?

[Thunderball]

This is a question on the moral stance of this nation... there's no way this shouldn't be a referendum question... this is something that everyone should get a voice on. This will greatly effect this country in ways a lot of people don't understand or want to understand.

Also, reading some news stories, I think there's gonna be some stomping of rights in the name of defending rights... ie: demanding people to quit their jobs as marriage licensees because of their religious beliefs (discrimination based on religion)... which is frankly, more wrong than telling people that marriage is for a man and a woman only.

Plus, 11 US states had referendums on it, and they were soundly defeated, even the most liberal of democrat states shot it down... maybe everyone isn't in favor of it, just don't care to say anything. Out of everyone I have talked to about gay marriage, maybe 5 of 6 out of 30 are in favor it, these are men, women, conservative, liberal, religious and non-religious... pretty good sample, actually, though I'm not gonna try and tell you its a scientific survey.

A lot of people are simply too afraid to say they are opposed to it because they don't want to be declared intolerant, bigotted, ignorant, paranoid or anything else people in favor of it want to throw at them.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Dec 10 2004, 11:58 PM
This is a question on the moral stance of this nation... there's no way this shouldn't be a referendum question... this is something that everyone should get a voice on. This will greatly effect this country in ways a lot of people don't understand or want to understand.

How will this effect the country in ways I don't understand or want to understand? Serious question, I'm not disagreeing with you (yet).

Far as I can tell, the main effect on the country will be that some gay people get married and my life will go on as it always has. My life will be about as affected as it was when the man and woman from two doors down got married. I saw the limo and people in suits but since then nothing at all has changed for me.

Boo hoo hoo for the poor loser that gets canned because he won't issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple. If he refuses to do his job then he deserves to get fired. Do we really want some storefront bureaucrat dictating morality to us? I don't think so.

[Savvy27]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Dec 11 2004, 06:58 AM
Also, reading some news stories, I think there's gonna be some stomping of rights in the name of defending rights... ie: demanding people to quit their jobs as marriage licensees because of their religious beliefs (discrimination based on religion)... which is frankly, more wrong than telling people that marriage is for a man and a woman only.

A lot of people are simply too afraid to say they are opposed to it because they don't want to be declared intolerant, bigotted, ignorant, paranoid or anything else people in favor of it want to throw at them.

I'm sure there will be a lot of bleeding hearts for people who believe its their job to decide which lifestyle other people deserve to live. Which it isn't, their job is to make sure that everything is legally sound, not to take a subjective look at a persons religious beliefs. And nobody is demanding them to do anything, its their choice to continue with their career or not, if they can't do the job that they are paid to do then I'm sure they will be able to find a new line of work that isn't so emotionally distressing

A lot of people were pretty put out about people of different races getting married, I'm sure there were people out there saying that they were just too scared of being called a bigot or any of the other various accurate terms you've thrown out there. Someone on this board stated that in 20 years everyone is going to be wondering what all the fuss was about, and I think that time will prove him to be right.

[Primo]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Dec 11 2004, 06:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Dec 11 2004, 06:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flaming Homer@Dec 10 2004, 11:03 PM
I disagree because men shouldn't be with men, but as long as some guy isn't trying to hit on me (which is asking for a trip to the hospital) he can do however he pleases. And I don't have a problem with the gays either. It's just the fact of being gay that I disagree with.

I've always wondered about this one. What makes you so anxious about a man trying to hit on you that you would violently attack him? Would you do the same if an unattractive woman was hitting on you?

I would understand if the guy is physically aggressive or really pushy that's one thing, but if some dude asks for your phone number or offers to buy you a drink would you really assault and beat him? If so, why? [/b][/quote]
No kidding, I dont understand what the whole stereo type of gays came from. So if you walk up to a gay guy, hes automatically gonna start hitting on you? This fear of the unknown is kinda ridiculous. I totally agree with flaming homer, and its understandable that there are still "traditionalists" about when pertaining to the issues of homosexuality.

[Thunderball]

I agree if someone is playing storefront bureaucrat then whatever, but aren't we as Canadians supposed to be tolerant and understanding of other people's beliefs? We tolerate different religions and cultures, but when its christianity, we should tell them to taking a flying leap? I dunno...

As for it changing the Canadian landscape... it won't in a way Joe Canada will be able to see for quite some time. We will be changing a moralistic tradition into something completely different... we will also be giving a legal precedent to any bas**rdization of marriage down the line (ie: polygamy, bestiality, legal marriage of minors without parental consent)... we will also be demonstrating that as a society, we do not stand behind much, which will allow fringe groups to take on our system and change the laws to reflect themselves. Hey, while we are being so liberal, why not lower the age of consent... cause that might be stopping teenagers in love from being able to demonstrate their love between one another, and the way society is going, who can really say the parents know best?... besides, we don't want to be ageist, now do we?? (granted the last one is a bit of a stretch since our AofC is 14... which is quite low... but once you get the ball rolling like this...)

We may also see an increase of intolerance because of this actually... people that are so offended by our government "abandoning their roots" (I dunno, claptrap... I know I'm not grabbing a pitchfork if the gays get married) and decide to take their anger out on innocent people. We may also see a government attack on respected religious instiutions and an indirect attack on people who are faithful... which, in an society that vows to protect those rights is disturbing. Seriously, I'm not really devout, but it almost seems a heinous thing nowadays... Bush is evil cause he's a devout Christian, so-and-so is too religious, and so-on... disturbing trend.

[Faid1]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Dec 10 2004, 11:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Dec 10 2004, 11:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

If you don't mind gay marriage becasue it doesn't effect you, why do you disagree with being gay? How does that effect you? Just asking.

I disagree because men shouldn't be with men, but as long as some guy isn't trying to hit on me (which is asking for a trip to the hospital) he can do however he pleases. And I don't have a problem with the gays either. It's just the fact of being gay that I disagree with. [/b][/quote]
Sounds like you're a wee bit homophobic to me. You have a problem with two gay men but I doubt you have a problem with two (hot) lesbians.

[moon]

Originally posted by Savvy27@Dec 11 2004, 12:20 AM

I'm sure there will be a lot of bleeding hearts for people who believe its their job to decide which lifestyle other people deserve to live. Which it isn't, their job is to make sure that everything is legally sound, not to take a subjective look at a persons religious beliefs. And nobody is demanding them to do anything, its their choice to continue with their career or not, if they can't do the job that they are paid to do then I'm sure they will be able to find a new line of work that isn't so emotionally distressing

A lot of people were pretty put out about people of different races getting married, I'm sure there were people out there saying that they were just too scared of being called a bigot or any of the other various accurate terms you've thrown out there. Someone on this board stated that in 20 years everyone is going to be wondering what all the fuss was about, and I think that time will prove him to be right.

Why shouldn't people in the private sector have the right to marry who they want?

If they are getting paid by the government then they should marry everyone, but if they are in the private sector they should have the right to marry whomever they want. Just like anyone in the private sector should be able to hre and fire anyone they wnat.

You have a stupid haircut? see ya. You are too fat for me? you're gone! you're gay? get the hell out of here. You're black and I'm a racist? no job for you. When it comes to the private sector I could care less why people get fired or don't take on customers. They run the company, they put the money into the company and they take the losses of the company. If they don't want to hire someone for whatever reason they should not have and if they wan to refuse someone service they should be allowed to as weel for whatever reason they feel necessary.

[The Goon]

If the worst problem we're facing in Canada is two dudes gettin' it on, then we're doing alright as a country.

Or, in other words: There's got to be more pressing issues to deal with.

[Sammie]

Originally posted by Deelow@Dec 11 2004, 12:23 AM
Klein needs to get over this and focus on other issues.

Somebody in this God forsaken country should take a stand on something, ANYTHING, rather than allow a few gays, a stacked court and a devious, corrupt government with a hidden agenda force their will and views on the majority. Hopefully Klein, now that he's not worried about getting re-elected, is the person needed to start the ball rolling in a different direction.

It's time for this social engineering experiment to end and I'm tired of all that pretentious political correctness that is intentionally perpetuated to stifle discussion about major changes they want to make to the established mores of our society.

[RougeUnderoos]

Thunderball said:

I agree if someone is playing storefront bureaucrat then whatever, but aren't we as Canadians supposed to be tolerant and understanding of other people's beliefs? We tolerate different religions and cultures, but when its christianity, we should tell them to taking a flying leap? I dunno...

It's not only christians that are against it I'm sure. My point is that if anyone, of any religion, paid to administer marriage certificates to two people legally entitled to them refuses to do so then they are in the wrong job and should either quit or be canned because they can't/won't do their job. You wouldn't hire someone who won't sell liquor to work in a liquor store.

Thunderball said:

As for it changing the Canadian landscape... it won't in a way Joe Canada will be able to see for quite some time. We will be changing a moralistic tradition into something completely different... we will also be giving a legal precedent to any bas**rdization of marriage down the line (ie: polygamy, bestiality, legal marriage of minors without parental consent)... we will also be demonstrating that as a society, we do not stand behind much, which will allow fringe groups to take on our system and change the laws to reflect themselves. Hey, while we are being so liberal, why not lower the age of consent... cause that might be stopping teenagers in love from being able to demonstrate their love between one another, and the way society is going, who can really say the parents know best?... besides, we don't want to be ageist, now do we?? (granted the last one is a bit of a stretch since our AofC is 14... which is quite low... but once you get the ball rolling like this...)

I'm not sure what you mean by "moralistic society" but slightly altering marriage laws to allow a few guys or gals to get hitched will not change my morals or the morals of the citizens of Canada one iota.

Every time this subject comes up someone ties bestiality and polygamy to same-sex marriage. Why? If some dude wants to marry his quarterhorse or a woman wants two husbands, let them fight their own battles. Why should Adam and Steve be lumped in with that lot?

If we are so worried about the slippery slope then maybe we should look at hetero marriage because after all, that's what started this whole marriage thing. Did anyone ever say "if we let a man and a woman get married, soon enough two guys might want to hook up, and next thing you know my cousin Janet will be on a honeymoon in Niagara Falls with a Shetland pony"?

Thunderball said:

Bush is evil cause he's a devout Christian, so-and-so is too religious, and so-on... disturbing trend.

Bush is not evil because he's a Christian because he's not a Christian. He says he's a Christian but actions speak louder than words.

[Thunderball]

The reason "Adam and Steve" are lumped in with "Adam, Eve, and Steve" or "Adam and Fido" is simple... legal precedence.

If gay marriage is approved, all these yahoos have to say is, "if they get this, its discriminatory if you don't give us the same treatment."

At least with a tough fight (ie: Referendum) its gonna show that changing anything is extraordinarily difficult. Right now, its a matter of convincing a few people, not a few million.

[Pagal4321]

Ralphie you got bigger fish to fry.
Put it to a referendum and things probably won't go your way.

I persoanlly don't have a problem with it.

[Sammie]

Originally posted by Faid1+Dec 11 2004, 01:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Faid1 @ Dec 11 2004, 01:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I disagree because men shouldn't be with men, but as long as some guy isn't trying to hit on me (which is asking for a trip to the hospital) he can do however he pleases. And I don't have a problem with the gays either. It's just the fact of being gay that I disagree with.

Sounds like you're a wee bit homophobic to me. You have a problem with two gay men but I doubt you have a problem with two (hot) lesbians.[/b][/quote]
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS ALERT!!!