Student Faces Expulsion for Facebook Study Group

[fredr123]

A freshman at Ryerson University is facing 147 charges of academic misconduct for organizing a Facebook study group for one of his engineering courses. The University claims the collaboration on the study group amounted to cheating and the student faces expulsion.

"But if this kind of help is cheating, then so is tutoring and all the mentoring programs the university runs and the discussions we do in tutorials," he said.


...


He had earned a B in the class, but after the professor discovered the Facebook group over the holidays, the mark was changed to an F. The professor reported the incident to the school's student conduct officer and recommended expulsion.
Neale said Avenir missed two meetings to discuss the matter because of a miscommunication. Tuesday's hearing was arranged to give him a chance make his case against explusion. Ryerson is not obliged to do so.


While Neale admits the professor stipulated the online homework questions were to be done independently, she said it has long been a tradition for students to brainstorm homework in groups, particularly in heavy programs such as law, engineering and medicine.


Each student in the course received slightly different questions to prevent cheating, she said, and she did not see evidence of students doing complete solutions for each other. Instead, she said, they would brainstorm about techniques.


"They'd say to each other stuff like ... `Remember what to do when you have positive cations (a type of positively charged ion)' and that sort of thing," she said.


But Neale admitted the invitation to the Facebook group may have been what landed them in trouble. It read: "If you request to join, please use the forms to discuss/post solutions to the chemistry assignments. Please input your solutions if they are not already posted."


Still, said Neale, "no one did post a full final solution. It was more the back and forth that you get in any study group."

And in today's Calgary Herald, the University defends their stance:

"The issue is that it doesn't matter where it happens," Norrie warned. "We will pursue it."


Norrie said that the university's code of conduct "calls for us to charge the person who facilitates and enables cheating. We're trying to educate students on what they can and can't do."


"The code is clear that someone who enables others to cheat will receive a severe penalty."

[tkflames]

We want blood!!! Throw him out!!! Actually though, I have no respect for that. Its so annoying to actually do a homework assignment in university that takes 6 hours or more only to find out that the prof "can't determine who cheated" and therefor everybody gets a zero or its omitted. Especially in an academic institution, do your own talk to others about it but you don't have to do assignments together. ( I mean what are you going to do in industry? Ask the guy in the next cubicle to do the work for you?)

[fredr123]

The article from The Star asks what the difference is between an online study group and a bunch of students sitting around in the library or some other study hall working on questions together. I think it's a valid question.

To me, the critical difference is between how easy it may be to participate in an online group versus actually sitting in a dank basement study hall with paint peeling off the asbestos-stuffed walls. If I may draw a parallel with the music industry, piracy didn't seem to be of concern to record labels so long as it involved people making mixed tapes for their friends. As soon as digital technology came along that made duplication easier and much more convenient, the industry went up in arms.

If it wasn't for study groups, tutorials, etc. there are a few classes I would have had difficulty passing. Not only passing, I suppose, but learning the material (which, I would argue, is more important than getting a good grade). At the end of the day, incidents like this really only affects your grade on assignments. I would assume that the university standard proctored final exam was employed at the end of the term and Facebook will do you little good there.

tkflames: Forcing people to work completely independently in school is great training for industry jobs. I know for a fact that I never collaborate with any of my colleagues in my office and I certainly wouldn't ask for help from anyone else in the industry.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by tkflames

We want blood!!! Throw him out!!! Actually though, I have no respect for that. Its so annoying to actually do a homework assignment in university that takes 6 hours or more only to find out that the prof "can't determine who cheated" and therefor everybody gets a zero or its omitted. Especially in an academic institution, do your own talk to others about it but you don't have to do assignments together. ( I mean what are you going to do in industry? Ask the guy in the next cubicle to do the work for you?)

actually yes!
In a lot of circumstances, isn't collaboration part of working on something. maybe you dont know all the answers, and the guy in the cubicle next to yuo might.
that would be teamwork in my opinion.

[The Yen Man]

I dunno, in this case I'll have to side with the prof. I mean, the student claims no solutions were posted, but only him and his group know that. The prof doesn't. When he sees "post your solutions and findings here" thread, he'd have to assume they were collaborating answers together. For all he knows, the student could have just deleted all the answers after or something.

The assignment specifically states that it should be done independently. The student has no one but himself to blame for not reading the syllabus carefully. I mean, yah you can unofficially get together to discuss the assigment, but it does state that you should not be sharing answers.

Universities take cheating and plagerism very seriously. Although I don't think he should be expelled since he may have honestly not known better, I think the F should stand.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Sample00

actually yes!
In a lot of circumstances, isn't collaboration part of working on something. maybe you dont know all the answers, and the guy in the cubicle next to yuo might.
that would be teamwork in my opinion.

Absolutely and you ask him questions regarding your work. That is completely different from solving and working through a problem to get to a solution. (There is a difference between asking someone how do I do this and getting them to do it and copying). In the case of students, there are TA's and Professor office hours where they can ask the same questions as to the guy in the cubicle next door.

[kermitology]

This is the type of thing that should be encouraged. You should be able to work together, and I've never understood why it's such an issue.

Obviously people should submit their own work, but working together to solve a problem is how the world works.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by kermitology

This is the type of thing that should be encouraged. You should be able to work together, and I've never understood why it's such an issue.

Obviously people should submit their own work, but working together to solve a problem is how the world works.

Yah, but working idependently to solve something on your own is also how the world works too. A lot of courses try to train you on both by having a mix of group assignments as well as individual assignments.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by fotze

I heard on CBC this morning that this was a case of take-home exam where they were asked not to collaborate, which I think changes things.

If it really was a take home exam, then buddy deserves to be expelled for being stupid enough to start this group on the most accessible social networking site in the history of the planet!

I mean, how hard would it have been to do this over MSN or another much more secure channel?

You really want this guy engineering stuff when he can't even think of that?

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by fotze

I heard on CBC this morning that this was a case of take-home exam where they were asked not to collaborate, which I think changes things.

I agree, that would change things. None of the articles I've found mentioned that though otherwise I'd post the link. Lot's of speculation and not enough facts now.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Yah, but working idependently to solve something on your own is also how the world works too. A lot of courses try to train you on both by having a mix of group assignments as well as individual assignments.

not that I disagree with you, but....
that would be an interesting study, but almost impossible to do. How much of the world's work is completed through team work and how much is independent.
Now having said that, even a physician, if he doesnt know the answer to a problem will seek out a resource material, whether a book or another physician to assist him in answering the problem. Its a bit of working independently and then getting a team together to resolve an issue.

[fredr123]

A few posters ought to hurry up and delete some of their threads for feat that Bingo will rat you out to your schools.

[LChoy]

The idea is a good one in theory. I remember doing BCEM labs and CMMB assignments with groups when I did university. It's more important to understand how things work and sometimes the best way to work is to get together. I understand there are office hours, TA's, and Student clubs to help, but when you are in a class of over 100, you aren't gong to get a lot of individual attention. I was fortunate enough that I knew people from my classes and we studied and worked together, but what people that are more shy or foreign exchange students. Facebook study groups lets anyone join and discuss the course and seek help that they need to learn. Of course there will be someone that will just take the answers and leave, but they're just screwing themselves for midterms and finals, which in upper university courses, are worth the majority of your grades. I admit I don't know exactly what was discussed, and what the specific issue the prof had about the study group, but the idea of the facebook study group shouldn't be punished.

[corporatejay]

This is a really good article from the National Post on this issue which I think nails this right on the head. The guy cheated, he got caught. They were specifically told this was an independent assignment, he should be expelled.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...17/161363.aspx

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This is a really good article from the National Post on this issue which I think nails this right on the head. The guy cheated, he got caught. They were specifically told this was an independent assignment, he should be expelled.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...17/161363.aspx

sorry i fail to see how posting "post solutions here" is a form of cheating. It seems to me that that post is the only thing they have for proof that he cheated. In reality it proves nothing as writting something like that down and actually doing it are two completely different things. If that is the only proof they have then frankly their whole case is based on speculation and this guy should receive no penalty.

[OILFAN #81]

This reminds me of a thread where someone was doing a report on ethics for school (were supposed to use their own ideas) and made a thread on here on what to write about, lol.

Anyways in terms of this specific case, if it was a take home exam and they were supposed to work on it individually, how dumb could you be to make a facebook group???? If you wanted to cheat, he should have got together at home with 1 or 2 people from his class and worked on it together. I doubt the University assigns watchguards to each student's home. If he's dumb enough to make a public group on it, then he deserves a F. I'm not sure where I sit on expulsion though. That seems a bit too much if this was his first time cheating. I think working in groups, etc is fine in University. People have different ways of thinking and it definately helped me out on assignments, etc (we were allowed to for assignments, and I think I only had 1 take home exam in my 4 years at the U of A so that wasn't an issue). But this seemed to be a case where they were specifically told not to work together.

[flamesfan6]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

sorry i fail to see how posting "post solutions here" is a form of cheating. It seems to me that that post is the only thing they have for proof that he cheated. In reality it proves nothing as writting something like that down and actually doing it are two completely different things. If that is the only proof they have then frankly their whole case is based on speculation and this guy should receive no penalty.

ummm i thought posting answers on assignments for all to copy was cheating... i dident read the article, but if its posting answers to an assignment that has yet to be handed in...... it is cheating to share the answers

[ernie]

As a TA I reported a student for plagiarism to the prof of the course. Student got kicked out of university.

The offence? The moron found an old lab and copied it out word for word. Problem is he probably should have checked the name on the lab he used...it was mine from when I took the course!

Idiot. He had other offences so that he essentially got himself kicked out of university.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

sorry i fail to see how posting "post solutions here" is a form of cheating. It seems to me that that post is the only thing they have for proof that he cheated. In reality it proves nothing as writting something like that down and actually doing it are two completely different things. If that is the only proof they have then frankly their whole case is based on speculation and this guy should receive no penalty.

So because he had everything set up in order to cheat on the assignment (by having the Facebook group in the first place even though it was specified to be an independent assignment) with a topic stating to "post solutions here", he shouldn't be expelled because no answers ended up being posted? That's like saying I get caught with a textbook in an exam, but I shouldn't be expelled because I wasn't able to use it to find the right answers to the questions on the exam.

Bottom line, the guy was stupid. I mean, if he wanted to cheat, he could have done it easily without getting caught. Definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Jason14h]

Bottom line, the guy was stupid. I mean, if he wanted to cheat, he could have done it easily without getting caught. Definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Or has no friends to help him, He is a member of facebook!