Roger Clemens files suit...

[habernac]

My question is, if he's innocent, why did he take so long to do so?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

[burn_this_city]

I think he juiced to beat the effects of aging on his recovery time.. How many Cy young awards did he win while looking like he's never left the couch?

[socalwingfan]

The cynic in me thinks the timing may have something to do with appearing before Congress - I'm no lawyer but filing a lawsuit would probably give him an excuse not to appear before congress.

[HOOT]

Did anyone see the 60 minutes interview?

He looked so guilty...take a lie detector if you are so innocent.

[habernac]

lie detectors prove jack squat and aren't admissible as evidence in a case anyway. I don't htink Clemens looked really comfortable there, but he's never been a good interview guy, he always looks uncomfortable.

I think proving either side of this will be next to impossible. A he said/he said argument, unless there's some evidence out there we don't know about.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Did anyone see the 60 minutes interview?

He looked so guilty...take a lie detector if you are so innocent.

I thought he came off pretty good. And ultimately his point of guilty before innocent is spot on.

Right now the evidence is single testimony from a guy who was facing jail time and pressured into talking. Why does that guy's word count more that Clemons.

There needs to be more evidence before these guys are hung out to dry.

As for why he waited so long - tough call - perhaps planning a long-term plan for dealing with it rather than reacting quickly and making a blunder.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Did anyone see the 60 minutes interview?

He looked so guilty...take a lie detector if you are so innocent.

His nose was growing right before our eyes.

Overheard on the Jim Rome show today:

Someone should test Mike Wallace for steroids. He is 125 and still doing interviews.

[Resolute 14]

Waiting so long is obvious, imo. You don't just rush out to the court, pick up a form and submit it. It takes time to build the argument, then have the lawyer put it in legalese. I'm rather surprised that he filed suit this quickly, and expect more will follow.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Right now the evidence is single testimony from a guy who was facing jail time and pressured into talking. Why does that guy's word count more that Clemons.

.

because, as said on PTI, the only condition of Mcnamee's deal was to tell the truth. If it turns out he lied to congress, he goes to jail, he has no reason to lie and EVERY reason to tell the truth.c

conversely Clemons has every reason to lie in the world.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by habernac

lie detectors prove jack squat and aren't admissible as evidence in a case anyway.

They might not prove anything for a court case but it may help his image if he is truly innocent...there was a NFL player who got his suspension lifted because of the lie detector test wasn't there? So there must be some proof behind taking one

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Right now the evidence is single testimony from a guy who was facing jail time and pressured into talking. Why does that guy's word count more that Clemons.

He still had to tell it under oath, and why bring up Clemens name if it was false? All he had to do is tell them which players he injected, we found out that Andy Pettitte receiving HGH is true. I don't think he had any reason to point the finger at Clemens except that it is true.




He looks bigger and in better shape at 40+ than he did during his "prime".

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

because, as said on PTI, the only condition of Mcnamee's deal was to tell the truth. If it turns out he lied to congress, he goes to jail, he has no reason to lie and EVERY reason to tell the truth.c

conversely Clemons has every reason to lie in the world.

Perhaps he was pressured into giving up a "big name" in order to cut his deal?

I dunno. Since when though does the statement of a single questionable person make someone guilty.

Gotta be more evidence than that.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by HOOT

He looks bigger and in better shape at 40+ than he did during his "prime".

Meh. He looks like a middle aged guy compared to a early 20s guy.

I know I've put on bulk in the last 10 years - some of it muscle some of it "not muscle".

Men typically get larger as they age.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Perhaps he was pressured into giving up a "big name" in order to cut his deal?

I dunno. Since when though does the statement of a single questionable person make someone guilty.

Gotta be more evidence than that.

He was pressured to tell the truth more than anything I would expect. As we have seen with Bonds the feds hate being lied to, especially if it might mean they look bad for going after the wrong guy.

There is also plenty of ancedotetical evidence over his career that points to him being a using. Physically and performancewise Clemons fits the PED user profile to a tee.

This might not be enough in a courtroom but in terms of public perception tied to the testimony and the fact that Pettite admitted that what Mcnammee said was true about him it doesn't look good for Clemons.

Considering their backgrounds and what each has to lose if they lie or tell the truth I would definitely give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that gains and goes to federal prison if he lies over the guy that could lose his legacy and millions of dollars if he doesn't lie.

[JiriHrdina]

Well on the score there was some discussion of the Feds saying to the guy
The truth is x
We need you to tell us the truth.
So what do you have to say.

If they implied they knew Clemons was a user - and then told the guy they needed the truth - then that's how he could have been pressured into teling them what they wanted to hear. Wouldn't be the first time.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well on the score there was some discussion of the Feds saying to the guy
The truth is x
We need you to tell us the truth.
So what do you have to say.

If they implied they knew Clemons was a user - and then told the guy they needed the truth - then that's how he could have been pressured into teling them what they wanted to hear. Wouldn't be the first time.

Might be plausable if the feds had been trying to nail the Rocket for a while, aside from idle chatter about Roger's crazy workouts which make normal atheletes throw up, but there was nothing before the Mitchell Report about him. I think you're really reaching Jiri.

[OILFAN #81]

Very interesting article:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;...v=ap&type=lgns

[HOOT]

I get that steriods are illegal...but why do the feds care so much?

I think they should just save the tax payers and baseball fans some $$$ and just have it in the books as a the Steriod Era

[Dion]

Watched the press conference this afternoon. Clemens looked vey uncomfortable especially with the press. He was agitated and angry in the way he talked.

They also played a recorded conversation betweem Clemens and his former trainer. His former trainer kept asking Clemens what he wanted him to do. Not once did Clemens say come to the press conference when clearly the trainer was willing to do so. Also, for a man whose career was shot to hell by these alligations, he didn't show the same anger on the phone as he did during todays press conference. Found that odd when you consider most people would be angry with said person.

On female reporter asked him for his opnion of his former teamate Pettite who admitted to using steriods. Clemens danced around the question like a true politician and refused to answer the question.

Lie detector was raised and his lawyer spoke on his behalf on the issue.

lol Then he goes on a tirade saying the Hall of Fame means squat to him , as well all the records he has achieved. That's not why i play the game he added. Thought he was going to burst a blood vessel.

At the end he stormed off the podium.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Dion

lol Then he goes on a tirade saying the Hall of Fame means squat to him , as well all the records he has achieved. That's not why i play the game he added. Thought he was going to burst a blood vessel.

At the end he stormed off the podium.

He said kinda the same thing last night on 60 minutes...what an idiot. I actually never disliked him and even finding out about the steriods I just shrugged my shoulders. But after watching him the last few days I have realized that he is an idiot...he is a quiet version of Bonds.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by HOOT

He said kinda the same thing last night on 60 minutes...what an idiot. I actually never disliked him and even finding out about the steriods I just shrugged my shoulders. But after watching him the last few days I have realized that he is an idiot...he is a quiet version of Bonds.

He came across as so phoney when he said that. I wonder how many trophies he has on display at his house - i'm willing to bet a lot.

He didn't come across as believeable in that press conference.

Then there's his song and spiel about steriods where he stated that they do not improve ones game. The guys in the gym where i was at were splitting a gut when they heard that comment.