What's Your Definition Of "Buyer" Or "Seller"?

[Prototype]

The CPHL has been known to fire a GM or two who weren't interested in bettering their roster, so I'm not trying to imply that I'm expecting that everything comes cheap around these parts. Everyone should be trying to do the best thing for their rosters.

But with the whole trade deadline thing this year, and everyone trying to classify themselves as "buyers" or "sellers", I've gotten mixed signals from some GMs. I have talked to a few "sellers", and I'm not lumping everyone together here, but I have had a few go after players like Shane Doan.

If I were to trade Shane Doan, that would make me a "seller" as well, when I'm trying to pick up pieces to get back into the playoff picture. Doesn't quite make sense to me.

So, for clearifications sake... I'd like to know what you guys think the definition of "buyer" and "seller" is.

To me, a "seller" is someone who has pieces that will either not be with the club the following season, or would like to move specific pieces for cap purposes, depth chart issues, etc. A seller should get some value, but for players with larger contracts, or UFAs, they shouldn't expect equal value.

One GM tried to use another trade to show what value he or she was expecting for their player. I can respect that, but it turned the deal sour, cause the price tag was a little too high.

A "buyer" on the other hand is looking to pick up those pieces that "seller's" are trying to move, buy possibly moving picks, prospects, younger assets, cap space, etc. In my definition, a "buyer" shouldn't be expected to move a core guy, but isn't limited to non-core moves.

The bottom line is the deal has to make sense for both sides. For the Nordique right now, moving a core guy doesn't make sense, because there's a big discrepancy between a core guy, and a non-core guy. I'm limited on the other assets I do have, but there's some stuff there that I'm willing to move to get a deal done.

I'm sorry if this came across soap-boxy... but I just wanted to get a good idea of what other GMs were expecting when they became "buyers" or "sellers".

[KevanGuy]

Buyer - Someone who buys.
Seller - Someone who sells.

[Sylvanfan]

One GM tried to use another trade to show what value he or she was expecting for their player. I can respect that, but it turned the deal sour, cause the price tag was a little too high.

Well with the deadline still like 3 weeks away there's no urgency to sell today because if they don't, they miss the boat. Anyone can ask for whatever they want for a player and it's up to other GM's to determine if the price is too high. You as a buyer right now may be facing more urgency to buy something now because you need it. The seller doesn't need to sell their asset.


The bottom line is the deal has to make sense for both sides. For the Nordique right now, moving a core guy doesn't make sense, because there's a big discrepancy between a core guy, and a non-core guy. I'm limited on the other assets I do have, but there's some stuff there that I'm willing to move to get a deal done.

Well if you can't offer the other party something they want than they're under no obigation to make a deal for the fun of it. It takes two to make a trade and everyone tends to value their current assets quite highly.

Everyone has their own view of their own team. 31 GM's will all have differing opinions on buying or selling. A lot of it has to do with everyone's varying theories on where their team is, what they need to do to make it better, and how they project the market to trend down the road. Too hard to simply define buyer and seller beyond what KG just did.

[Goffie]

IMO
Buyer = Someone willing to give up some future to help there club today.
Seller = Someone willing to take a hit today to get a gain in the future.

Now that is a pretty brief explanation and there are different degrees of buyers and sellers and everyone has their own idea of what they want their club to look like and that will impact their strategy's.

[Slava]

I'm a seller. We are selling high (vets) and buying low (prospects/young guys).

[Sample00]

since I was in a discussion with you, I will give you my defination of a seller.
One that is selling some commodities to improve another team in the short term and receiving commodities that will help me in the long term.
for example:
If I were to move murray, I would expect a good CPHL ready player now, a strong prospect and most likely a high draft pick.
my reasoning? murray will help any team right now! I will wait for my return to develop or move them in the future for help in the near future.
Maybe I over price my players but I wont move them unless I feel I am getting a good return.

[Prototype]

Originally Posted by Sample00

Maybe I over price my players but I wont move them unless I feel I am getting a good return.

I'm not trying to suggest that GMs throw this way of thinking out the window. And I do understand that when it comes to trading, it takes two to tango.

Just trying to get a better feel of what the GMs of this league think they'd be getting for their players, being buyers or sellers.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Sample00

since I was in a discussion with you, I will give you my defination of a seller.
One that is selling some commodities to improve another team in the short term and receiving commodities that will help me in the long term.
for example:
If I were to move murray, I would expect a good CPHL ready player now, a strong prospect and most likely a high draft pick.
my reasoning? murray will help any team right now! I will wait for my return to develop or move them in the future for help in the near future.
Maybe I over price my players but I wont move them unless I feel I am getting a good return.

Well said, I agree with this.

If Team A is a Seller and has placed high rated Vet on the block. Most likely a mid teir draft pick or a low/mid ranked prospect will not work.....

From what I have seen not allot of teams are in a hurray to "Buy" a Vet.... maybe that will change when the dead-line nears.

[Hanna Sniper]

Seller - selling off short term assets
Buyer - Looking to acquire short term assets

A seller is someone looking to maximize his/her short term assets by moving them elsewhere in hopes that they are not left with nothing in return for the asset once that assets term expires.

Sometimes the return of such assets are high and low, it all depends on the market and how much the price is driven up by other interest.

If the Seller is truly a seller they will settle with what they see as the best they can do or risk getting no return....

Some people disguise themselves as Sellers but are only hobby fishers looking for a catch of the day, and some also dress the part as a buyer only looking buy a plasma TV off a junkie for the price of a hit

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Some people disguise themselves as Sellers but are only hobby fishers looking for a catch of the day, and some also dress the part as a buyer only looking buy a plasma TV of a junkie for the price of a hit

Clever analogy. This game does have it's share of salesmanship and we all use different sales tactics.

Now why don't you all go get addicted to crack and go steal some T.V's....I'd love to help you out with your habits.

[Knut]

I am a Buyer right now... i throw caution to the wind and move all my prosects/picks.

Sellers generally try to bring in assets that will help them become buyers in the future.

I am Seller at the start of the offseason, and progressively become more and more of a buyer until it is the deadline (or i am happy with my team makeup).

The price for UFA's should drop as the deadline approaches... as said above, it is 3 weeks away and there is no hurry for buyers or sellers to make a deal.

[simmer2]

I see a seller as someone who is on a team that won't make the playoffs and wants to move their veterans or UFA's to a team that is looking to make a run int the playoffs.

That being said, if there are a lot of sellers and not many buyers, then it makes sense to become a temporary buyer in hopes that it will turn around and you can sell that asset for more than you acquired it. That works vice versa as well.

It seems there really aren't that many buyers around right now, everyone is somewhat concerned about their asset management and salary cap.

That being said, it's difficult to judge what a player is truly worth. For value, I try and consider if the deal would happen in the NHL. If it is realistic there, then I would think it's a reasonable deal here.

All in all, I think GM's are now starting to think about this year but as well next year, so making a deal now that will hurt next year's cap isn't such an easy decision. We have smart GM's trying to do the right thing for their club and not screw up next year.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Well, with 32 different GMs in the league, one would logically expect some varying opinions on the definition of a "seller" and the definition of a "buyer".

By the same token, "value" in players will obviously vary from GM to GM. Hell, take a look on the main forum and read through the varying opinions on how good (or bad) the Flames actually are, or how good of a job Sutter has done since becoming GM. We all watch the same team, but opinions are often so far off from each other, one might think these people are watching two completely different hockey clubs.

Gathering a consensus on the definition of a "seller" or "buyer" is likely an exercise doomed to fail. Especially when, as Goffie pointed out, the varying degrees of these buyers/sellers are considered.

[Sample00]

^^ good gawed, Noob, you actually sounded quasi intelligent there!

[Knut]

Originally Posted by simmer2

That being said, it's difficult to judge what a player is truly worth. For value, I try and consider if the deal would happen in the NHL. If it is realistic there, then I would think it's a reasonable deal here.

THat is NOT a good way to view things. The CPHL has other factors at play... namely how a player does in the SIM and ratings that may be artifially high or low. While how they do in the NHL should come into play.. it should not be what makes or breaks a deal.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by Hesla

THat is NOT a good way to view things. The CPHL has other factors at play... namely how a player does in the SIM and ratings that may be artifially high or low. While how they do in the NHL should come into play.. it should not be what makes or breaks a deal.

I don't necessarily look at it in all deals. For example, the Nedved deal I made he's not even in the NHL anymore, so that's a CPHL deal.

I've found that the "good SIM player" argument hasn't worked very well for me. Take a look at Lehtinen for example, he's a great SIM producer and besides his contract he is a player that would definitely help for the playoffs. The thing is, nobody wants to get even close to him.

I've never really been successful in a "SIM-friendly player" deal, but then again I've only been around for a couple of months.

[Sylvanfan]

Well when a team starts to get serious about winning in the CPHL they need to start playing the SIM a lot more. It's her way of seeing if you're willing to sell your soul to her in the name of Fantasy Hockey Greatness! Oh, that Sim such a cruel girl.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I don't necessarily look at it in all deals. For example, the Nedved deal I made he's not even in the NHL anymore, so that's a CPHL deal.

I've found that the "good SIM player" argument hasn't worked very well for me. Take a look at Lehtinen for example, he's a great SIM producer and besides his contract he is a player that would definitely help for the playoffs. The thing is, nobody wants to get even close to him.

I've never really been successful in a "SIM-friendly player" deal, but then again I've only been around for a couple of months.

I want to get so close to him its scary. WDF Metro for Lehtinen!

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I've found that the "good SIM player" argument hasn't worked very well for me. Take a look at Lehtinen for example, he's a great SIM producer and besides his contract he is a player that would definitely help for the playoffs. The thing is, nobody wants to get even close to him.

The thing is that "besides" is a 9.99 million for next season is a HUGE besides. I'm sure if he had a 3 M contract you'll have 31 GM's knocking on your door.... not really a good example because the said player is the highest paid player in our league.

Now the question really is, how many drinks are you going to feed us before one of us takes your *cough* witch *cough* home

[icarus]

A seller is someone who is willing to trade an important component of their current team for something that will help the team in the future.

The Oilers are buying because we want to add to, not detract from, a roster that can challenge for the Cup this season.