Tenant question for th almighty CP Oracle

[Robbob]

Just wondering if a tenant agreement is never signed does a tenant still get protected by the landlords and Tenant Act thingy. Or is the person just considered a month to month tenant?

[SarichFan]

If you have no agreement signed in writing, you're hooped. There's no terms agreed upon by either party and you can be kicked out at any time. You're really not considered to be anything really.. Why would you not get a lease signed? yikes

Maybe i'm missing something.. I've been dealing with a jerk of a landlord who pre-maturely tried to kick us out 8 months before our lease ran out, fortunately we have a fixed term lease in place that both parties signed and we've been here ever since, with some annoyances here and there, pointless showings... ect. (Who's going to buy a house with a tennant in there for 5 months??)

I've had people come look at our place in the evening while i've been watching a Flames game, with a beer in my hand. It's quite humerous

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by SarichFan

If you have no agreement signed in writing, you're hooped. There's no terms agreed upon by either party and you can be kicked out at any time. You're really not considered to be anything really.. Why would you not get a lease signed? yikes

Maybe i'm missing something.. I've been dealing with a jerk of a landlord who pre-maturely tried to kick us out 8 months before our lease ran out, fortunately we have a fixed term lease in place that both parties signed and we've been here ever since, with some annoyances here and there, pointless showings... ect. (Who's going to buy a house with a tennant in there for 5 months??)

I've had people come look at our place in the evening while i've been watching a Flames game, with a beer in my hand. It's quite humerous

Kinda redundant, no?

We almost got kicked out too for refusing to pay rent until the hot water heater was fixed (we'd gone without hot water for two weeks prior).

Somewhat unfortunately in this case, the world runs on paper trail.

[Robbob]

Its not me...a situation where at of good faith let someone get back on their feet. I knew the party and wasn't to concerned. Basically I want to sell the place and just wondering if I have to give 3 months warning or just a end on the month type thing.

[photon]

Even if no agreement was signed, there's still a landlord-tenant relationship and the act still applies. Even if you had a month by month signed agreement with the tenant, you still need to give 3 months notice.

You can sell the place though still with there being a tenant there; a buyer might be looking for that. If the buyer isn't, they may have a possession date that is beyond the 3 months.

You might be able to work something out as well, give the guy some kind of incentive for getting out of the place early, free rent or something.

[photon]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

We almost got kicked out too for refusing to pay rent until the hot water heater was fixed (we'd gone without hot water for two weeks prior).

Rightly or wrongly, that's not one of the reasons a tenant can legally withhold rent. Landlord should be on top of things like that I agree but you can't withhold rent because of that.

[BlackArcher101]

Photon is right. The Residential Tenancies Act still applies in this case and proper notifications must be given as in other periodic tenancies.

[SarichFan]

Learn something new every day!

[photon]

You're a tenant and you haven't read the landlord tenant act??? yikes

[SarichFan]

Originally Posted by photon

You're a tenant and you haven't read the landlord tenant act??? yikes

I know more about that damn act then I should know.. I just only know alot based on my situation (fixed term)

[BlackArcher101]

Linky goodness.

http://www.acjnet.org/docs/landten/agree-form.html

[fredr123]

http://www.landlordandtenant.org/splash.aspx

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by photon

Rightly or wrongly, that's not one of the reasons a tenant can legally withhold rent. Landlord should be on top of things like that I agree but you can't withhold rent because of that.

Legal or not, what's the landlord going to do? They'd lose whatever case they bring to court/whatever board it is that they go to.

It's also illegal to not provide hot water.

If a landlord is trying to sel a house, legally they can only give three months notice to the tenants after the house is sold.

Three months notice alway means three months, plus whatever is left of the current month. The last day of the month the landlord can give notice that starts that month, is the first of the month. So, if the landlord gives you notice on the 5th of February (for example), the first day he can require you to be out is not May 5th, but May 31st.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Legal or not, what's the landlord going to do? They'd lose whatever case they bring to court/whatever board it is that they go to.

It's also illegal to not provide hot water.

The first thing a judge is going to tell you is that the obligation to pay rent is sacrosanct. You never get to stop paying rent because the landlord is being a ######. The landlord may get chastised for being a slumlord or failing to live up to its obligation under the lease, but a tenant is (very rarely) justified in not paying rent.

Par example: http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abpc/doc...998abpc85.html

[Deelow]

I've got a similar question. Say tenant moves into a place on October 1st and it was assumed that it was a 6 month lease but the actual paper lease was never presented or signed. After 3 months tenant's professional situation changes and he is forced to move out. Giving a full month of notice tenant was moved out by Feb 1st. Landlord is now withholding the security deposit on the basis that the full 6 month lease was not completed. Only there is no documentation that a 6 month lease ever actually existed. Who wins?

[ken0042]

Deelow- I would say that legally and without lying, if you had an oral agreement for a 6 month term that you are stuck with that term.

However if 6 months was discussed but never actually agreed upon; you may be in the right.

That's my guess; keep in mind I'm no expert.

[photon]

Without any contract, it would basically become a battle of he-said she-said. Courts tend to favour the tenants quite a bit too.

So might be worth at least checking with a lawyer familiar with landlord-tenant stuff to find out if it's worth pursuing in court, though if the 6 months was verbally agreed to losing just the security deposit might be better than taking the risk that a judge decides you're responsible for the extra 3 months, or splits the difference and says 1 1/2 months or something.

[photon]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Legal or not, what's the landlord going to do? They'd lose whatever case they bring to court/whatever board it is that they go to.

It's also illegal to not provide hot water.

The landlord has a responsibility to maintain the property according to the Public Heath Act, and yes hot water is part of that requirement. It would also violate the "peaceful enjoyment" part of the landlord tenant act. So yes they'll lose, but you can't withhold rent at the outset.

But if the hot water isn't being provided that's still not a legal reason to withhold rent. The only reason I can think of is if the landlord does not provide a signed copy of the tenancy agreement, then the tenant can withhold rent until the copy is provided.

In the case of no hot water, an application to the court would have to be made before rent could be withheld, or a fixed term tenancy is broken.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Deelow

I've got a similar question. Say tenant moves into a place on October 1st and it was assumed that it was a 6 month lease but the actual paper lease was never presented or signed. After 3 months tenant's professional situation changes and he is forced to move out. Giving a full month of notice tenant was moved out by Feb 1st. Landlord is now withholding the security deposit on the basis that the full 6 month lease was not completed. Only there is no documentation that a 6 month lease ever actually existed. Who wins?

One thing I forgot to ask, is is the property still vacant? Or did they find someone else to rent it? Or did they even advertise it (I doubt you'd know that last one).

Reason I ask is even in the case where a tenant abandons a fixed term tenancy, while the tenant is responsible for the term of the tenancy, the landlord is legally obligated to minimize their damages; meaning they have to advertise and try and find a new tenant.

So if the property is rented as of Feb 1st, there's no damages to the landlord and they have to give the security deposit back. If the property is rented for March 1, then the tenant is only responsible for 1 month, etc...

[Tron_fdc]

I'm a little late to the party, but there are a few things I can add to this seeing as I just went through having to toss out "friends" who were renting out my house.

- verbal agreements are the same as a signed agreement. If you agree on a 12 month term, it's the same as a written 12 month term
- holding back rent is a VERY risky thing to do in Alberta. If you don't pay me rent, as a landlord I can call a court appointed baliff to enter your house (legally) and repo your possessions that equal rent due. This includes towing your car. If you want your stuff back you have to pay the rent (in full) plus the baliff fee ($250). I can do this if you're 1 day late on rent.
-if you don't pay rent I can also give you a 14 day notice to terminate your lease. This means you have to pay the rent within the 14 days or I can kick you out at the end of the month.

My advice to people is always pay your rent, but if there's a problem with the house/condo to seek some kind of legal advice. Withholding rent in Alberta is a sure way (if the landlord knows his rights) to lose a bunch of your possessions.