Insider spills beans on the X360 RROD...

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Great read on the reasons behind the RROD from a staffer in the know. Gems like:

Second, MS was so focused on beating Sony this cycle that the 360 was rushed to market when all indications were that it had serious flaws. The design qual testing was insufficient and incomplete when the product was released to production.

RROD is caused by anything that fails in the "digital backbone" on the mother board. Also known as a core digital error. CPU, GPU, memory, etc. Bad parts, incompatible parts (timing problems) bad manufacturing process (like solder joints), misapplied heat sinks or thermal interface material, missing parts, broken parts, parts of the wrong value, missed test coverage. Any one or more, on any chip, or many other discrete components, would cause this.

The main design flaw was the excessive heat on the GPU warping the mother board around it. This would stress the solder joints on the GPU and any bad joints would then fail in early life.

Q: How many times does an Xbox 360 unit have to be sent in and repaired before they will replace it with a completely new unit?
That's not how it works. You send in a broken box, you get back a working box (hopefully). So there is a rotating stock of the original units that get repaired and returned to service. Plus, they keep finding these cashes of launch units here and there and using them too. Didn't you hear during the holidays that bundles were found with units made in 06? Those were pulled back from the retail channel last spring when the new heatsink was done, and had the new heatsink placed on them and then put into the shipping flow like any other box.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/d...ves/129866.asp

[JayP]

I never understood the people who get 3+ RROD and don't just give up and sell the 360 for a PS3 or a Wii.

Even if you think the game library is that much better what's the point in a console that you have to send for repair every couple months?

[SarichFan]

Originally Posted by JayP

I never understood the people who get 3+ RROD and don't just give up and sell the 360 for a PS3 or a Wii.

Even if you think the game library is that much better what's the point in a console that you have to send for repair every couple months?

I've had a 360 for 2 years and only had one fail on me... BUT I do have a PS3 as a backup if I have to send it in.

[Russic]

I've read that before and it really is mind blowing. The only thing more shocking to me is the devotion many people show to the company after being provided with defective equipment multiple times. I'm not anti-360 or anything, I'm just amazed at how many people don't seem to get overly annoyed by the failure rate.

[Hemi-Cuda]

i've had my 360 for almost 2 years and i've never had a problem. maybe i'm the minority, but for what i want it blows the PS3 away in every category

[The_Dude]

I've had the original core system for 3 years and never had a problem yet.

[burn_this_city]

Microsoft has always cut corners on hardware.. Believe it or not my buddy went through 11 or 12 first gen XBOXs.. He would leave them on all the time and they would die every few months.. He worked at walmart so he'd get a new one no questons asked.. I think the 360 is quite a bit better, but when compared to say the NES or any nintendo product its a peice of junk..

[Flaming Choy]

never had a problem here (about 2 years now). Actually never had a problem with any systems i've owned except the original playstation, but just had to adjust the POT on the laser to fix that. Maybe some people don't take care of their stuff very well? Or play a lot more then i do.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Flaming Choy

never had a problem here (about 2 years now). Actually never had a problem with any systems i've owned except the original playstation, but just had to adjust the POT on the laser to fix that. Maybe some people don't take care of their stuff very well? Or play a lot more then i do.

Well from the article, the "insider" quoted 30% failure rate, similar to what has been mentioned for months from retailers. In a hardware industry, that is pretty atrocious and I'm not sure it can be blamed on people not taking care of their stuff well. It's a video game system, not a set of china plates.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by JayP

I never understood the people who get 3+ RROD and don't just give up and sell the 360 for a PS3 or a Wii.

Even if you think the game library is that much better what's the point in a console that you have to send for repair every couple months?

I'd gladly turn my back on the 360 platform for it's miserable hardware failure rate, but bottom line it's got the games I want to play.

I made the conscious decision to not get the best deal, but buy from a retailer that'll let me exchange it for a new one on the spot vs send it in to MS.

On a sidenote, this new BenQ drive that's supposed to be quieter....isnt.

[RyZ]

Including myself, my circle of gaming friends has 5 360's and we've seen 7 RROD's as a group with everybody having at least 1.

To tell you the truth I'm suprised the mainsteam media didn't jump all over this story a whole lot more than they did.

MS's investors can't be happy if the 360 ends up in 3rd world-wide at the end of the generation and they spent millions and millions in replacements in the first half of the 360's life cycle.

Also interesting is that Peter Moore, the head of MS's Xbox division at the the start of the generation is no longer with MS and now runs EA's sports division.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by RyZ

MS's investors can't be happy if the 360 ends up in 3rd world-wide at the end of the generation and they spent millions and millions in replacements in the first half of the 360's life cycle.

The xbox division just posted a quarterly profit of over $300 million, so I think the investors couldn't care less. I would wager that the sales of Halo 3 alone covered the cost of the hardware replacement several times over.

[Burninator]

I've had mine over a year and never had any problems. I am sure it isn't as bad as a problem as the internet makes it out to be. People go online to complain, not to report that everything is working fine.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by psicodude

The xbox division just posted a quarterly profit of over $300 million, so I think the investors couldn't care less. I would wager that the sales of Halo 3 alone covered the cost of the hardware replacement several times over.

True, but this is the first quarter since the launch of the original xbox that the xbox division has has not lost hundreds of millions. In total the xbox division has lost in the north of 4 BILLION dollars since it's inception.

If Microsoft comes out last this generation world-wide (and it's very likely they will) and have a loss of 3 Billion on the project since it's inception, do you not think some of the investors might get ancy? The RROD problems would just be another straw (and probably a big heavy one) on the camels back.

The video game industry has shown that it is big enough to support 3 major hardware players, but at this point MS has more reason to drop out sooner than the other 2. I sure hope that doesn't happen though and I'm sure it won't any time soon.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I've had mine over a year and never had any problems. I am sure it isn't as bad as a problem as the internet makes it out to be. People go online to complain, not to report that everything is working fine.

The 33% failure rate that was confirmed my Microsoft says differently.

Microsoft says they've done measures to fix the problem with new systems, but it's still being reported that the new systems are failing at an unacceptable rate.

I've read that before and it really is mind blowing. The only thing more shocking to me is the devotion many people show to the company after being provided with defective equipment multiple times. I'm not anti-360 or anything, I'm just amazed at how many people don't seem to get overly annoyed by the failure rate.

It's more shocking to see people how many people actually went out and re-bought the system after it failed on them (before the 3 year warranty). Especially since it's been widely known for a long time that the 360 is the most unreliable console ever.

[Flames89]

Originally Posted by RyZ

The video game industry has shown that it is big enough to support 3 major hardware players, but at this point MS has more reason to drop out sooner than the other 2. I sure hope that doesn't happen though and I'm sure it won't any time soon.

I really don't understand your logic. Why is the 360 going to drop out? It outsells the PS3 by more than 2:1
http://nexgenwars.com/

- It also has a the TOP selling game of all time. Grossing more than any media over the opening weekend ever.

- Has built itself very strong software licenses and has software studios that used to be Sony exclusive building for them as well (DMC4).

- 4 of the top 10 Game Sales in November were on Xbox360, compared to 3 for Wii and 2 for PS3

- Has an unparralleled "Live" experience with other players

Further, as I understand it, the PS3 costs the most to produce and loses the most per unit sold b/c of the expensive Blue-Ray components. Next in line is the 360, but since they have sold almost 20 million, there are cost savings occurring.

The Wii can almost be left out of this argument. It is the top seller, but many Wii owners who consider themselves "gamers" have another console. It also is the only machine that MAKES money per sale.

Microsoft had a 2Q Net Income of $4.71Billion, Sales of $16.4Billion! Their Entertainment Division, which is Xbox and Zune (not like that sells) had a 2Q of $3.1 Billion. (Those are all "B's")

So because there is a high failure rate for 360's, Microsoft is going to pull out of the race? A $7.4 Billion dollar industry in 2006?

I am not saying PS3 can come out on top (though my bets are still with MS), but to imply they would "pull out" is rendonculous!

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Flames89

I really don't understand your logic. Why is the 360 going to drop out? It outsells the PS3 by more than 2:1
http://nexgenwars.com/

The PS3 is expected to catch up and surpass the X-Box360 by next year on the back of major PS3 exclusive titles apparently(Final Fantasy nerds anyone?)

[theJuice]

Final Fantasy 13, Final Fantasy Versus, Metal Gear Solid 4, White Knight Story are basically my reasons for getting a PS3. Finally some actual AAA titles.

[Flames89]

Originally Posted by theJuice

Final Fantasy 13, Final Fantasy Versus, Metal Gear Solid 4, White Knight Story are basically my reasons for getting a PS3. Finally some actual AAA titles.

Yes. White Knight Story. AAA.



Anyway, not to take the piss out of you, I agree. If RPGs give you a chubby then PS3 all the way. Shooters? 360.

Regardless, there is a 360 vs PS3 thread elsewhere ...

I was just saying that I don't see the 360 bowing out anytime soon ... even in the face of "White Knight Story"!!11!!FEAR!!!!

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Flames89

Yes. White Knight Story. AAA.



Anyway, not to take the piss out of you, I agree. If RPGs give you a chubby then PS3 all the way. Shooters? 360.

Regardless, there is a 360 vs PS3 thread elsewhere ...

I was just saying that I don't see the 360 bowing out anytime soon ... even in the face of "White Knight Story"!!11!!FEAR!!!!

To be honest I think we'll see one of Microsoft or Sony bow out sooner than later. They're not 100% videogames like Nintendo and if losses keep building those involved may start to get skittish.