The fur industry...YIKES!!!

[maverickeastwood]

I just had this video forwarded to me about fur production in China. I must warn you that this is graphic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uN5fC-kdUQ

Is mankind getting worse by the minute?

[JiriHrdina]

Considering the fur industry in North America is a fraction of what it used to be I'm really not sure how mankind is getting worse. In fact - a shift in society's attitude towards fur is probably one reason why China has now eclipsed North American production.

Mind you it would be nice if this wasn't happening anywhere in the world - but its not like the fur industry is on the upswing over here.

[arsenal]

No, I am sure this has been going on for years, just now it is accessible to us through things like YouTube.
That being said, that does not mean I agree with their methods. If fur is going to be sold, then there needs to be a more humane way of achieving this.

What I don't get is why the animal must be skinned.. could you not shave the animal ie: sheep and get the same result?

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by arsenal

What I don't get is why the animal must be skinned.. could you not shave the animal ie: sheep and get the same result?

No, fur would be closer to leather. You need the pelt to attach to other pelts to form the garment.

The fur needs to be crafted in certain directions to achieve the desired outcome. Much like the grain of leather.

I'm no fur expert by any means, these are just my thoughts derived from looking at different items at trade shows, etc.

[Daradon]

Very common just more accessible. As it should be.

China is a huge violator of animal rights (and human) though you can even find our country a smaller perpatrator of such.

I agree that increasing trade and increasing standards is the way to go, but there are other atrocities you cannot be silent too. I don't want anyone to think, they are just in China. The politics are complicated, the morals are pretty damn simple.

If you want to get involved as some of us are, I assume you already know the channels.

But don't stop spreading the word. Good on ya.

[Daradon]

^^^ See first post for context

The larger issue is not just what is done to the animals. But what is done to the humans to make this a important and sustainable industry.

It's not just about animal rights. It's about human rights. It's about greedy corporations and large western industries. It doesn't stop in China. It's about Western stores buying this. In needs a world wide movement which most are unwilling to participate in. Not just in this but others.

The more you shock though, the more people become upset with you.

So few open minded people nowadays. So very few. They claim to be, but they are not.

[DuffMan]

Maybe the Chinese would deplore a video of baby seals getting clubbed.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Mind you it would be nice if this wasn't happening anywhere in the world - but its not like the fur industry is on the upswing over here.

Although apparently fur is making somewhat of a comeback in fashion circles.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by arsenal

What I don't get is why the animal must be skinned.. could you not shave the animal ie: sheep and get the same result?

I going to pee my pants. You made my day.

[maverickeastwood]

Originally Posted by Daradon

^^^ See first post for context

The larger issue is not just what is done to the animals. But what is done to the humans to make this a important and sustainable industry.

It's not just about animal rights. It's about human rights. It's about greedy corporations and large western industries. It doesn't stop in China. It's about Western stores buying this. In needs a world wide movement which most are unwilling to participate in. Not just in this but others.

The more you shock though, the more people become upset with you.

So few open minded people nowadays. So very few. They claim to be, but they are not.

Thats just it though. Those that are able to afford such things provide a market. Western society is trained to consume...voraciously. In the west, there are those that find products like this carry a status symbol that states "I have it and you don't". I think, IMO, those that own things like this don't particularly care about how these goods are produced. The "It's made everyday" mentality is quite strong and dulls those to the idea that a price was paid. No guilt, remorse or regret.

As for those who work the production line, They must be some messed up. Bit of a stretch, but it's been said that it starts with small animals...

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I going to pee my pants. You made my day.

Why can't they do something like plugs for guys with hair loss? Use a synthetic type skin, and basically plug the hairs into it. It's not like the fur has to keep growing.
It would increase the cost, save the lives of animals, and provide a fashion statement for those that want it.

[maverickeastwood]

..."But, it's not genuine" is the response that would receive. Good idea though.

[Circa89]

Wow, I don't know if any you actually watched the video but that closing scene blew me away. Truly an unforgettable image that will be ingrained in me for the rest of my life.
Let's get this out of the way. I am not a Peta member or an advocate of the spca. In fact I am their arch nemesis as I am a pest control professional.

Animal rights in Canada are vastly different from China save for perhaps the Inuit traditional Seal Hunt.

For example :
If we are to trap Pigeons in Calgary. We must visit the trap on a weekly basis, provide food, shelter and water for the bird in its last days. Well, providing a fresh source of water this time of year is a tad difficult and I have resorted to buying expensive solar powered birdbath heaters and heated dog water bowls to ensure that the Pigeons have fresh water before they are humanely euthanaised. All of this so that we can remove 20 birds from an HVAC unit that defecate their feces (which contains 41 potential diseases) into the air intake plenum.

I have walked every kill floor for Pork, Poultry and Beef in the province and never in my life have I seen something even remotely similar to conditions to that.

The image of the fox skinned alive blinking away and thrashing about with no skin has guaranteed that my wife will never receive a fur trimmed garment ever.

Truly deplorable and there is no need to support an industry like that to save 20 30% off retail costs. The same goes for most products that come out of China. we as North Americans turn our heads in the name of saving costs.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Circa89

Wow, I don't know if any you actually watched the video but that closing scene blew me away. Truly an unforgettable image that will be ingrained in me for the rest of my life.
Let's get this out of the way. I am not a Peta member or an advocate of the spca. In fact I am their arch nemesis as I am a pest control professional.

Animal rights in Canada are vastly different from China save for perhaps the Inuit traditional Seal Hunt.

For example :
If we are to trap Pigeons in Calgary. We must visit the trap on a weekly basis, provide food, shelter and water for the bird in its last days. Well, providing a fresh source of water this time of year is a tad difficult and I have resorted to buying expensive solar powered birdbath heaters and heated dog water bowls to ensure that the Pigeons have fresh water before they are humanely euthanaised. All of this so that we can remove 20 birds from an HVAC unit that defecate their feces (which contains 41 potential diseases) into the air intake plenum.

I have walked every kill floor for Pork, Poultry and Beef in the province and never in my life have I seen something even remotely similar to conditions to that.

The image of the fox skinned alive blinking away and thrashing about with no skin has guaranteed that my wife will never receive a fur trimmed garment ever.

Truly deplorable and there is no need to support an industry like that to save 20 30% off retail costs. The same goes for most products that come out of China. we as North Americans turn our heads in the name of saving costs.

Gross.

Really?

Pretty fast and loose with the term "professional", by the way.

[icarus]

Not that I condone the unnecessarily cruel and inhumane ways these animals are processed in China, but I am sure the same thing was going on in Canada for a couple hundred years.

Our country was explored, settled, and partially populated in the name of fur. Beaver pelts were all the rage in Europe and in the Hudson's Bay Company outposts here they were the only currency. There were no shops, so pelts were traded for supplies. I am sure they didn't take any more care of the beavers than was needed (although I imagine they would have probably eaten some of the animal). I believe a sustainable beaver population in Canada was actually threatened at one time, but then beaver hats went out of fashion in Europe and the industry dried up.

Also let's not forget how white Europeans skinned buffalo alive, cut their tongues out, and left them to rot on this very land.

I guess we can point at the Chinese and say treat your animals better, profits aren't everything, but to what extent can we say these things when the settlement of our country was fueled by the desire for fur? I can see the Chinese saying the same thing as they say when we try to impose emission targets on them: "you certainly didn't have any concerns about it until you became developed, so let us do just as you did until we get to that point as well".

[Circa89]

Fair enough Ircarus but now that we are developed as a nation do we condone such practice as justified because they need economic development too or can we take a moral high ground and perhaps individually boycott a practice that serves no real end other than personal flamboyance (my that was a long sentence).

Rouge, I am a professional in all things pest related as witnessed by a solid B- in economic entomology in University.

[Language]

Originally Posted by icarus

Not that I condone the unnecessarily cruel and inhumane ways these animals are processed in China, but I am sure the same thing was going on in Canada for a couple hundred years.

Our country was explored, settled, and partially populated in the name of fur. Beaver pelts were all the rage in Europe and in the Hudson's Bay Company outposts here they were the only currency. There were no shops, so pelts were traded for supplies. I am sure they didn't take any more care of the beavers than was needed (although I imagine they would have probably eaten some of the animal). I believe a sustainable beaver population in Canada was actually threatened at one time, but then beaver hats went out of fashion in Europe and the industry dried up.

Also let's not forget how white Europeans skinned buffalo alive, cut their tongues out, and left them to rot on this very land.

I guess we can point at the Chinese and say treat your animals better, profits aren't everything, but to what extent can we say these things when the settlement of our country was fueled by the desire for fur? I can see the Chinese saying the same thing as they say when we try to impose emission targets on them: "you certainly didn't have any concerns about it until you became developed, so let us do just as you did until we get to that point as well".

Well with regards to your last comment, science has come a really long way and only now are people truly starting to understand the consequences of global emissions and other pollutants.

And just because a country is newly developing does not give them the right to say, "well you did it before." Out of all the things I hate, animal abuse is right there at the top, and just because people did things like this in our country back in the day does not forgo the right and responsibility to criticize others. I still find it hard to believe that people need to be "taught" that animal cruelty is wrong. I'm not even going to watch that video as I know some of the things I'll see will just be deplorable.

[Dr GonZo]

Maybe I'm too soft but that video litterally brought me to tears. I'm fairly empathetic to a vast variety of beliefs, careers, preferences and all, but seeing how these 'people' treat those animals completely boggles my cognition. I truly cannot compute how one could treat another living, feeling, growing being with the potentiality to love and develop character with less respect than dirt. It's almost as if they do their best to petrify the animals without getting any benefit from it.

Although I am a member of PETA and have been since I've been earning money with a part-time job at MacDonalds, I still feel like there's so much more that can be done. Sending an email with the link to this clip just isn't enough. What more can one do to stop such horrible, horrible things from happening?

What's wrong with mankind? Why are we the only living beings that can act out of pure cruelty without any personal gain? How come we aren't born with an instinctive respect for all living creatures? Does this mean, that without it, there's no hope for us as a whole? Industrialism scares me; well, the effects of industrialism scare me. The systematic process of doing everything efficiently to lower costs makes sense, but should there not be a limit to what can be done? Does it even matter anymore, or are we too late?

Enough EMO talk, I'm just appalled that such videos can be placed on YouTube and that so very little is done to stop it. I guess it's the disconnection of the processes, no one is really responsible for anything anymore it seems; the workers at the fur farms are doing what they are told, their bosses fill the demands, the Western importers are congratulated for lowering costs. It disgusts me. Which is ironic as I just received my master in business administration.

We'd need to change our genetic code to better prioritize our lives: long term growth is more important than short term gains, and RESPECT goes above everything. It doesn't matter what you do, if you follow those principles, you're a good person. Anyone that doesn't agree with this, scares me.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Why can't they do something like plugs for guys with hair loss? Use a synthetic type skin, and basically plug the hairs into it. It's not like the fur has to keep growing.
It would increase the cost, save the lives of animals, and provide a fashion statement for those that want it.

I was just envisioning a Wolf caught in a trap. Along comes a trapper. Shaves the wolf (in the middle of winter) and then lets it go free so the Wolf can freeze to death. Not to mention the wrestling match the trapper would have with the wolf to get him shaved. I'm sure this isn't anything like you meant. But I still found it extremly funny.

Wool is spun into yarn and then knit. What would you do with fur that was shaved off an animal?