Snow tires? Two or four?

[MoneyGuy]

I have four snow tires on my car and think they're great. However. my daughter has just bought a new car (thanks, Tim) and is tapped out due to this large purchase. She could buy four snow tires but I'm asking on her behalf if anyone uses snow tires only on the drive wheels? Is it safe, and advised? Tire retailers will tell you that you need four tires, but do you really?

[Ironhorse]

I would always go with four. Just think about going around a sweeping bend that is icy; do you want the rear end (assuming it is a front wheel drive) suddenly loosing traction and come sliding around? Putting on only two winter tires upsets the car's balance and makes it unpredictable IMHO.

[Barnes]

Two snow tires is better than no snow tires and four snow tires is better than two.

[TimSJ]

I always reccommend 4... but 2 is certainly better than none

[CaptainCrunch]

Just drive some studs into those tires

[ken0042]

Just replaced my two front tires with brand new ones; leaving the old ones on the back. Just having all seasons all around I found with the new tires on the front I have a lot more control when accellerating and braking, but it is now way easier to put the car into a skid if a I take a corner the wrong way. Front tire bite in, rear tires try to pass the front ones.

I've heard it suggested that if going with two tires to put them on the back of a FWD car. Now I understand why. Myself, I share the common trait among the CP community of having above average driving skills so I can deal with it and it's "better" for me. Not knowing your daughter's skill set, she might be better with them on the back.

However new rear all seasons with new front snow tirs may not be as bad of a combination.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

I would always go with four. Just think about going around a sweeping bend that is icy; do you want the rear end (assuming it is a front wheel drive) suddenly loosing traction and come sliding around? Putting on only two winter tires upsets the car's balance and makes it unpredictable IMHO.

How fast are you moving in order for that to happen?

I drive a tiny FWD car with 4 all season tires and haven't had a problem sliding around. It's a standard with a short first gear, so winter is super fun! Given that all the weight is in the front of the car, the back-end follows the front no matter what and I've never had an issue with fish tailing.

I've tried the front wheel winter tires before. All they did was make it easier to start moving on ice without sliding to one side or another. Turing still required a lot less speed then it would in summer.

[iggypop]

Ask any tire expert and they will tell you that if you're only going to do 2, you should do the rears. It may sound backwards on a FWD car, but in fact it will give you a lot more control from spinning out if you just do the rears.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by iggypop

Ask any tire expert and they will tell you that if you're only going to do 2, you should do the rears. It may sound backwards on a FWD car, but in fact it will give you a lot more control from spinning out if you just do the rears.

I would agree if the driver has little to no driving skills. In a FWD car, getting on the throttle is how you correct a loose backend. If you have all the grip in the back and it gets loose, having no traction in the front would cause you to spin out completely because hitting the throttle would do nothing.

[Kidder]

Originally Posted by iggypop

Ask any tire expert and they will tell you that if you're only going to do 2, you should do the rears. It may sound backwards on a FWD car, but in fact it will give you a lot more control from spinning out if you just do the rears.

Yeah, I just overheard this very thing this morning. The fronts sliding can be compensated by steering. If the rears lose grip, you're gonna fishtail.

Always on the back.

[Cowboy89]

Not to get too OT but how much does a decent set of 4 winter tires cost?

Only wondering because I had a close call coming back from Kicking Horse this weekend!

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Kidder

Yeah, I just overheard this very thing this morning. The fronts sliding can be compensated by steering. If the rears lose grip, you're gonna fishtail.

Always on the back.

How do you steer if you have no grip?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Barnes

How do you steer if you have no grip?

You turn the tires in the direction of the slip... which regains grip. Unless you lock the brakes in panic like lot's of people do.

[Claeren]

But i think you are far more likely to lose traction if they are on the front - to the point that it actually CAUSES the car to lose grip. You oversteer into a corner with the false sense of stability and then all of the sudden the backend lets go and you slingshot out. Like, there is built up momentum (potential energy) that is unleashed more suddenly (resulting in more total kinetic energy).


Compared to having them on the back. Where you are forced to drive more within the limitations of the grip of the lesser tires (now on the front) and thus have no large amounts of potential energy waiting to be released, meaning that the total kinetic energy of a wipe out is far less.


Something like that?


Claeren.

[BlackArcher101]

Moral of the thread... 4 tires = best, 2 rear tires = 2nd best, 2 front tires = worst.

The 2 tires in the rear act similar to the fins on an arrow in order to keep your car pointing forward. Pretend the car is sliding sideways (90 degrees to the centerline of the car). If the car rotated about it's center of gravity (which we will say is in the center), the car will rotate towards the side with more friction. If we have 2 all seasons on the rear and 2 winters in front, the front end will have more friction/drag. This will cause the front end to resist travel more than the rear and will start to fall behind, thus causing the car to swap ends and you driving backwards down the road.

If the winters are in the rear, if the rear slides out in relation to the direction of travel, the extra friction will help cause it to recenter and keep it behind the front tires.

[Flames0910]

2 on the rear is better than none at all. especially if you're like me and you're in a boat with rear wheel drive....

[Smyth's Skate]

Personally, I only put 3 winter tires on. It adds that little bit of excitement to those early mornin snow drives!

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

You turn the tires in the direction of the slip... which regains grip. Unless you lock the brakes in panic like lot's of people do.

In the case of understeer you lift off the throttle or even hit the brakes without locking them to move the cars mass forward. This is easy in FWD because they have a front bias because of the drive train over the front wheels.

In the case of oversteer, the mass of your car is on the outside front. Doesn't matter how good your rear tires are, there's hardly any mass on them. You must use the throttle to shift weight to the back of the car by hitting the throttle. Correct the oversteer by steering in the same direction as the backend is going. If you have crap tires in the front you will spin your wheels and not transfer the weight to the back causing the spin to continue.

Putting snow tires on the back will cause the car to understeer more. I hate understeer even though it should be easier to handle for most. I would much rather have the backend come out on me.

[Fobby]

If you ask any tire expert, they will recommend either ALL 4 winter tires or NON at all. You would not want 2 sets of tires with 2 types of rubber compound.

[iggypop]

Originally Posted by Fobby

If you ask any tire expert, they will recommend either ALL 4 winter tires or NON at all. You would not want 2 sets of tires with 2 types of rubber compound.

No they wouldn't.