Andy Rooney Admits CBS Left bias

[Bingo]

"I am very critical of some of the people at CBS who make it apparent what their political leanings are," Rooney said. "That's what happened to this thing of Dan Rather's that got out. There's no question they wanted to run it because it was negative towards Bush."

Rooney

[arsenal]

I like what he said about "free news". There needs to be a completely unbiased news source out there. BBC seems pretty good, but unless you pay for it, you only get 30 minutes a day.

A news network for the people, by the people? Is it at all possible? I think I am starting to sound like a liberal *shudders*.

[FlamesAddiction]

Running things against the president was popular on all networks when Clinton was president too. It's sensationalism and all networks do it.

Still, I fully admit that most networks either lean left or are just easier on the left. You have to think though, from a philosophical point of view, people like journalists who are reasonably educated, travel the world and witness the things they do; will tend to lean left.

At least they are not as agressive and belligerent in their politcal leanings like FOX.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Nov 23 2004, 02:33 PM
Running things against the president was popular on all networks when Clinton was president too. It's sensationalism and all networks do it.

Still, I fully admit that most networks either lean left or are just easier on the left. You have to think though, from a philosophical point of view, people like journalists who are reasonably educated, travel the world and witness the things they do; will tend to lean left.

At least they are not as agressive and belligerent in their politcal leanings like FOX.

Careful ...

A person might take from what you're saying that the more educated and worldly you are the more left leaning you are.

That's pretty insulting if that's what you meant.

I do think that more artistic degrees in University ... Poli Sci, Journalism, etc ... would lean more left and have a tendency to have a bias, but I don't agree that the more educated you get the more likely you are to lean left politically.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Nov 23 2004, 08:33 PM
Running things against the president was popular on all networks when Clinton was president too. It's sensationalism and all networks do it.

The holier than thou righties quickly forget just how badly ALL networks dog piled on Clinton. I wonder of at this time ALL networks were considered right wing? Probably not, there was something else for them to whine about the "old media" being biased against the poor conservatives I'm sure. The level of hypocrasy displayed by the right never ceases to amaze me. They whine and complain about bias, yet their media outlets are so over the top biased it is embarssing. Yet they still point fingers and cry, all the time calling themselves fair and balanced and the other side biased. I always laugh at this because the local Clear Channel talk radio station (blatant RW Hate radio) claimed to be objective on election night yet when they announced the winner of State they had very different sound byte recordings. Bush states were announced with a huge fan fair recording and a cheering crowd. Kerry states were announced with a recording of an old woman saying John "F'n" Kerry and a chorus of boos. Yeah, objectivity is a very objective thing I guess.

CBS is the furthest left of the major media outlets, but they are not that far off of where center used to be. The advent of CNN and especially FoxNews has dragged the center line further right, forcing the left leaning CBS to the far extreme of the spectrum. The funny thing is that if you plotted the leanings of the media outlets on a graph, you could take all of the other stations measurements off of center, add them up, and they still wouldn't come close to where FoxNews is on right of center. But you will never see this becaise they are too busy waiving their arms in the air and crying foul, getting you to focus on the other guys and not watching the practices that Fox follows.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Nov 23 2004, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Nov 23 2004, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction@Nov 23 2004, 08:33 PM
Running things against the president was popular on all networks when Clinton was president too. It's sensationalism and all networks do it.

The holier than thou righties quickly forget just how badly ALL networks dog piled on Clinton. I wonder of at this time ALL networks were considered right wing? Probably not, there was something else for them to whine about the "old media" being biased against the poor conservatives I'm sure. The level of hypocrasy displayed by the right never ceases to amaze me. They whine and complain about bias, yet their media outlets are so over the top biased it is embarssing. Yet they still point fingers and cry, all the time calling themselves fair and balanced and the other side biased. I always laugh at this because the local Clear Channel talk radio station (blatant RW Hate radio) claimed to be objective on election night yet when they announced the winner of State they had very different sound byte recordings. Bush states were announced with a huge fan fair recording and a cheering crowd. Kerry states were announced with a recording of an old woman saying John "F'n" Kerry and a chorus of boos. Yeah, objectivity is a very objective thing I guess.

CBS is the furthest left of the major media outlets, but they are not that far off of where center used to be. The advent of CNN and especially FoxNews has dragged the center line further right, forcing the left leaning CBS to the far extreme of the spectrum. The funny thing is that if you plotted the leanings of the media outlets on a graph, you could take all of the other stations measurements off of center, add them up, and they still wouldn't come close to where FoxNews is on right of center. But you will never see this becaise they are too busy waiving their arms in the air and crying foul, getting you to focus on the other guys and not watching the practices that Fox follows. [/b][/quote]
You're about the only person I know that can take a CBS memo screw up and an insider admitting left leaning bias, and still blame it on Fox News.

Fox leans right, ... I've never said otherwise, but CBS clearly leans left, and the other two networks aren't that far behind.

[Bingo]

The other thing Lanny is scope ...

I started a string on CBS, and specifically Andy Rooney. That was it.

Clear Channel radio? What does that have to do with anything. Fringe networks, fringe radio programs, fringe web sites, fringe newspapers, fringe columnists are all in play in the market, but they don't have a damn thing to do with this topic in my mind.

All these fringe sources all seem to have a "preaching to the choir" market behind, them.

Network news, elite newspapers, and now CNN and to an even greater extent Fox has a larger grip and would factor into the debate.

Elite media is the key, and always has been in the slanted media argument. I think Fox is fair game in that discussion as they go to great lengths to call themselves fair and balanced.

CBS, and the other two revolt at the notion of bias however, and that comes under the microscope when you see mistakes like Rather's, and an admission like Rooney's.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Bingo@Nov 23 2004, 09:25 PM
Careful ...

A person might take from what you're saying that the more educated and worldly you are the more left leaning you are.

That's pretty insulting if that's what you meant.

I do think that more artistic degrees in University ... Poli Sci, Journalism, etc ... would lean more left and have a tendency to have a bias, but I don't agree that the more educated you get the more likely you are to lean left politically.

I think it is insulting too, that is why I often wonder why so many conservatives attack academia and look down upon intellectuals. They make themselves look bad by doing so. If the majority were in fact intellectuals, or respected intellect, why would they do it? Seriously, how often do you hear liberals lambasting intellectuals in their tirades? Practically never. Face it, conservatives (relative to liberals), in most parts of the world, put less emphasis on educating oneself, and I don't just mean in school, but by experiencing things. I think practically everyone I know who has travelled extensively is a liberal**. I don't think it is just a coincidence.

**That doesn't mean they vote for the Liberal party. I just mean small "l" liberal.

[northernflame]

"Careful ...

A person might take from what you're saying that the more educated and worldly you are the more left leaning you are.

That's pretty insulting if that's what you meant.

I do think that more artistic degrees in University ... Poli Sci, Journalism, etc ... would lean more left and have a tendency to have a bias, but I don't agree that the more educated you get the more likely you are to lean left politically. "

You started off on the right track, equating more education with a left leaning bias is a strong generaliztion to make.

But then you fell right off the tracks with an equally strong one yourself.

Am I to infer from your comments that those in the 'less artistic' disciplines are immune to the propensity for having a bias?

By the way noth Stocwell Day and Stephen Harper are educated in those artsy disciplines. They don't appear to have a left wing bias to me.

[Table 5]

Originally posted by Bingo@Nov 24 2004, 01:44 PM
Clear Channel radio? What does that have to do with anything. Fringe networks, fringe radio programs, fringe web sites, fringe newspapers, fringe columnists are all in play in the market, but they don't have a damn thing to do with this topic in my mind.

Clear Channel being fringe? Do you not realize that this network owns 1200 radio stations? They also own the network which airs Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura, Casey Kasem, and the Fox Sports Radio Network. With 103,000,000 listeners in the U.S. and 1,000,000,000 globally (1/6 of the world population), I dont think the word "fringe" belongs in any sense of the word when talking about Clear Channel.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Table 5@Nov 24 2004, 01:12 PM

Clear Channel being fringe?

I beleive Bingo was talking about the actual Clear Channel station... not the Clear Channel corporation which owns all those other stations.

[Table 5]

if so, my bad.....however the overal atmoshpere of clear channel stations is very similar throughout their stations. What happens on one station is liable to happen on the rest as well.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by northernflame@Nov 24 2004, 12:10 PM

By the way noth Stocwell Day and Stephen Harper are educated in those artsy disciplines. They don't appear to have a left wing bias to me.

Stockwell Day is not an educated person.

A few years ago I was reading his official online biography and his "university education" was couched in some pretty shifty language so I wrote them an e-mail asking "what year did Stockwell graduate from UVic and what was his major" and the response was "Stockwell did attend the university but never took a degree".

He wasn't there for long. Why a fundamentalist dumbbell like him would pick that school I'll never understand. It's like Steven Jay Gould going to Bob Jones University.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Nov 24 2004, 01:03 PM
I think it is insulting too, that is why I often wonder why so many conservatives attack academia and look down upon intellectuals. They make themselves look bad by doing so. If the majority were in fact intellectuals, or respected intellect, why would they do it? Seriously, how often do you hear liberals lambasting intellectuals in their tirades? Practically never. Face it, conservatives (relative to liberals), in most parts of the world, put less emphasis on educating oneself, and I don't just mean in school, but by experiencing things. I think practically everyone I know who has travelled extensively is a liberal**. I don't think it is just a coincidence.

**That doesn't mean they vote for the Liberal party. I just mean small "l" liberal.

You find it insulting, yet you do it yourself?

How does that make sense?

I have disagreed with many on the left on this site for the past few months, but never have I insinuated my stance is any more cerebral or worldly or evolved then those that oppose me.

That's a real issue for me.

If a person comes at a discussion assuming moral or intellectual superiority, rarely do they have the ability to see the other side.

A real shame.

As far as hammering academia? Can't really speak to a generalization like that specifically. I think an intellect or academic person that has very polar views should be questioned as harshly as anyone with an opinion though.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by northernflame@Nov 24 2004, 01:10 PM
You started off on the right track, equating more education with a left leaning bias is a strong generaliztion to make.

But then you fell right off the tracks with an equally strong one yourself.

Am I to infer from your comments that those in the 'less artistic' disciplines are immune to the propensity for having a bias?

By the way noth Stocwell Day and Stephen Harper are educated in those artsy disciplines. They don't appear to have a left wing bias to me.

Didn't mean to apply that street only went one way.

I guess (but don't know) that other University degrees have a greater propensity to vote conservative and therefore have a right leaning bias as well.

I know when I got my commerce degree the overall feel in the people I knew was a right slant, though I must admit for myself that is was more grounded in following and less grounded in my own belief system at that time.

[Five-hole]

Originally posted by Bingo@Nov 24 2004, 11:44 AM
The other thing Lanny is scope ...

I started a string on CBS, and specifically Andy Rooney. That was it.

That's BS Bingo and you know it. You really mean to tell me that, in light of the countless times we've talked about media bias on this board, you wanted to bring up a media bias story and confine it just to discussions on CBS and Dan Rather? Yawn. I don't buy it.

Unfortunately, the manner in which you delivered this thread places it squarely with in the context of our previous discussions on the subject. The fact that it's a story about media bias ALONE places it amongs the context of our previous discussions on the subject. Especially when your subject tagline is "shouldn't come as a shock".

So drop the whining about the "context being broadened". It's not being broadened. It was already there when you posted it and if you honestly didn't think such a topic would broach our previous discussions, then I have to ask if you forgot your coffee this morning.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by Five-hole@Nov 24 2004, 01:38 PM
That's BS Bingo and you know it. You really mean to tell me that, in light of the countless times we've talked about media bias on this board, you wanted to bring up a media bias story and confine it just to discussions on CBS and Dan Rather? Yawn. I don't buy it.

Unfortunately, the manner in which you delivered this thread places it squarely with in the context of our previous discussions on the subject. The fact that it's a story about media bias ALONE places it amongs the context of our previous discussions on the subject. Especially when your subject tagline is "shouldn't come as a shock".

So drop the whining about the "context being broadened". It's not being broadened. It was already there when you posted it and if you honestly didn't think such a topic would broach our previous discussions, then I have to ask if you forgot your coffee this morning.

You're an angry guy aren't you?

BS?
Yawn?
Stop the whining?

Yikes ... want to meet at the bike racks and settle this thing?

It is a broadening in my mind, though I guess you can feel free to tell me what I was thinking if you disagree.

Lanny doesn't agree that there's a left lean to the media, and this was a link to a guy within one of those refuted sources admitting it. Period. I didn't make a blanket statement that I've proven the bias exists in all media elite or that I solved the meaning of life.

If that was expected then I think said expectations are a little much.

Beyond that, I've made it clear on this topic numerous times that I don't think the issue is non mainstream media. There are plenty of voices on both sides off the beaten track that really don't have a huge say in what Joe Average is digesting on a daily basis.

That was always my scope ... elite media. Bringing up hate radio just doesn't fit into the mix. If he wants to argue looney extreme media he's picked the wrong guy because I'm not a fan of either side.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Bingo@Nov 24 2004, 07:43 PM

You're an angry guy aren't you?

BS?
Yawn?
Stop the whining?

Yikes ... want to meet at the bike racks and settle this thing?

It is a broadening in my mind, though I guess you can feel free to tell me what I was thinking if you disagree.

Lanny doesn't agree that there's a left lean to the media, and this was a link to a guy within one of those refuted sources admitting it. Period. I didn't make a blanket statement that I've proven the bias exists in all media elite or that I solved the meaning of life.

If that was expected then I think said expectations are a little much.

Beyond that, I've made it clear on this topic numerous times that I don't think the issue is non mainstream media. There are plenty of voices on both sides off the beaten track that really don't have a huge say in what Joe Average is digesting on a daily basis.

That was always my scope ... elite media. Bringing up hate radio just doesn't fit into the mix. If he wants to argue looney extreme media he's picked the wrong guy because I'm not a fan of either side.

You're so full of crap it isn't even funny. You don't make blanket statements? Bull. You make blanket statements but hide them in a way so that they don't hit you over the head. Just the same way your buddy Cowperson does with his insults. You're an opinionated SOB just like the rest of us and you relish in an opportunity to rub your opinion in the face of those who disagree with you, especially when it is someone of fame supporting your argument, a la Andy Rooney (like he's a credible source of anything). The difference is you like to try and BS people by waving your arms in the air and claiming that others are biased, that others make blanket statements, and you don't. You are fair and balanced. Its a hilarious to watch. You're just like the rest of us except that you carry around a smug holier than thou attitude and love to blow smoke up the readers skirt to appear balanced. And when someone calls you out on it, you come up with a lame "you're an angry guy" type of line to further cloud the issue and attempt to discredit your accuser.

And you don't have a clue about the media down here, you really don't. You claim that the "old media" (CBS, NBC, ABC) are the media elite and that they lean left. That's bull. They are the established media and are considered the benchmark. But when a series of newcomers pop up and are right wing, they make the established media look left leaning. You also display zero understanding of where the average Joe is getting their information. Calling Clear Channel a "fringe" establishment? Wow! They get more listers to many of their programs than the major networks do for their hit shows in prime time. The whole Hate Radio industry, which you like to dismiss as fringe and unimportant, is a massive chunk of Clear Channel's revenue and is a huge seller to the conservative market down here. There is an unbelievable number of people that are begging to be told what to do and how to think, and Clear Channel capitalizes off of that with their talk radio shows. The "old media" can't compete with the new establishment. They are so slow and bogged down in bureacracy that it is impossible to respond to the new establishment. Rathergate was proof of that.

And I laugh my ass off every time you have the gaul to say that FoxNews "leans" right. Jesus, if they were leaning any further right they would be on the left. FoxNews has so many direct connections to the extreme RW establishment it isn't even funny and you say they "lean" right. I guy you could say they lean right if you consider laying flat on your right side a lean.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Bingo@Nov 23 2004, 01:25 PM
A person might take from what you're saying that the more educated and worldly you are the more left leaning you are.

That's pretty insulting if that's what you meant.

I do think that more artistic degrees in University ... Poli Sci, Journalism, etc ... would lean more left and have a tendency to have a bias, but I don't agree that the more educated you get the more likely you are to lean left politically.

This is fairly off topic for this thread but I didn't want to start a new one on this topic so I'll throw it in here.

I went looking for some definitive proof one way or the other on the issue of education and politics.... Couldn't find anything.

But, I did find this (IMO) fascinating study from Haah-vard on education and religion which one might be able to link to politics in some way

Summarizing the findings:

1. More educated people tend to attend church more often (p. 4).

However, the authors chalk this up to the fact that higher education is correlated with social activity (p. 5) -- i.e. highly educated people tend to be more sociable, and chuch is a great place to socialize.

2. "Religious beliefs and education appear to be substitutes" (p. 8)

"Less educated people are more likely to believe in miracles, heaven, devils, and that adversity is a punishment for sin... More educated people sort into low belief denominations [eg. Episcopalians] with low levels of attendance.

The fact that education and belief are substitutes also shows itself in the fact that people from high belief denominations acquire less education. Holding their education constant, parents who come from high belief denominations have less educated children"

[Hot_Sauce]

...