11-23-2007, 06:50 PM
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#2
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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That's dumb.. there's nothing magical about our observation of photons from a supernova. Those same photos could fall onto a rock and it has the exact same quantum effect as observing them through a telescope.
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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11-23-2007, 07:00 PM
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#3
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photon
That's dumb.. there's nothing magical about our observation of photons from a supernova. Those same photos could fall onto a rock and it has the exact same quantum effect as observing them through a telescope.
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You seem to know about these things.. Can you explain the concept that measuring something resets the clock? It sounds crazy.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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11-23-2007, 07:02 PM
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#4
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
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For one thing, cosmologists have discovered that the universe is still expanding.
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Uh, what? That's been postulated for a very long time and Edwin Hubble discovered strong evidence to support an expanding universe model in 1929.
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11-23-2007, 07:07 PM
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#5
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2006
Location: @HOOT250
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You guys are WAY to s-m-r-t for me!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by henriksedin33
Not at all, as I've said, I would rather start with LA over any of the other WC playoff teams. Bunch of underachievers who look good on paper but don't even deserve to be in the playoffs.
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11-23-2007, 07:09 PM
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#6
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Anyone else think it's weird that the times of India are published in English???
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11-23-2007, 07:12 PM
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#7
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
You seem to know about these things.. Can you explain the concept that measuring something resets the clock? It sounds crazy.
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Honestly, I just think this is poor reporting (of an admittedly very difficult subject). I don't think there's any "resetting of the clock" going on.
I only have a very (VERY!) cursory knowledge of quantum mechanics, but I do know this much:
- According to the uncertainty principle, it's impossible to precisely know both the position and momentum of a particle. The more accurately one is measured, the less accurately the other one will be.
- Merely observing a particle can change its properties.
Yeah, it's really wacky stuff. Quantum mechanics is some of the most bizarre science I've ever read. Richard Feynman said this on the subject, "If you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory." Niels Bohr added, "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it."
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11-23-2007, 07:13 PM
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#8
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan02
Anyone else think it's weird that the times of India are published in English???
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Why would that be strange? English is one of India's official languages.
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11-23-2007, 08:59 PM
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#9
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
You seem to know about these things.. Can you explain the concept that measuring something resets the clock? It sounds crazy.
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Yeah I think there's some dumb reporting going on (as usual), though their direct quotes make me wonder.
There's a bit more detail here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...-mostviewedbox
This resetting the clock thing is called the quantum Zeno effect, and they kind of explain it in that article. I don't know much about it, but again this "observation" wouldn't be anything new, photons from sources that allow observation of dark energy have been happening for a lot longer than we've been around. It seems these guys are assuming that the human mind has some magical property about observation.
EDIT: For the quantum Zeno effect, I guess what they're saying is since the universe base energy state isn't zero (a theory but no idea if this is actually known) dark energy has a chance of spontaneously decaying creating a new big bang. The probability of this decay decreases over time but due to the quantum Zeno effect by observing dark energy we've reset this probability back to an original higher value. Which to me still places some special quality of human observation of dark energy vs. the interaction of dark energy with other things in the universe, which is bunk as far as I know.
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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11-23-2007, 09:03 PM
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#10
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2006
Location: @HOOT250
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Are there any movies on this stuff?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by henriksedin33
Not at all, as I've said, I would rather start with LA over any of the other WC playoff teams. Bunch of underachievers who look good on paper but don't even deserve to be in the playoffs.
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11-23-2007, 11:11 PM
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#11
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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SON OF A BITCH!!!!
I was SOOOOOO Close to dooming the universe next week and I got beaten to it!!!!! 
Now I'll have to alleviate my aggression against something else and doom some other universe....
Universes dont grow on trees you inconsiderate universe dooming hooligans!!!!
BTW: I hope I'm providing levity. 
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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11-24-2007, 10:47 AM
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#12
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOT
Are there any movies on this stuff?
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Yessury Bob, check out "What the (bleep) do we know?" and the longer version "What the bleep? Down the Rabbit Hole". Link
Pretty awe-inspiring movies, even though it goes over my head sometimes.
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11-24-2007, 10:57 AM
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#13
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Both those movies are junk science combined with magical thinking, I would recommend staying away from both of them.
EDIT: Not a movie, but if you want a good book on quantum stuff, QED by Feynman is very accessible.
http://www.amazon.com/QED-Strange-Th.../dp/0691024170
EDIT2: Also there's NOVA's Elegant Universe series, not directly about quantum stuff but has a lot of it in it:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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11-24-2007, 11:09 AM
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#14
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr GonZo
Yessury Bob, check out "What the (bleep) do we know?" and the longer version "What the bleep? Down the Rabbit Hole". Link
Pretty awe-inspiring movies, even though it goes over my head sometimes. |
Yeah, as photon said, avoid those films since they're more about pseudo-science and mysticism than they are about real science.
Wikipedia has a good summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_th...Do_We_Know!%3F
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11-24-2007, 11:12 AM
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#15
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
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For one thing, cosmologists have discovered that the universe is still expanding.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare
Uh, what? That's been postulated for a very long time and Edwin Hubble discovered strong evidence to support an expanding universe model in 1929.
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Yeah, I thought that the dark energy/expanding universe phenomena was that the expansion of the universe is still accelerating. Which probably isn't overly dependent on whether or not we looked at it.
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11-24-2007, 11:13 AM
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#16
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Is PISSED now!
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11-24-2007, 11:19 AM
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#17
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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http://scienceblogs.com/interactions...ning_the_u.php
A guy who's blog I like to read has a post on this.
(As an aside, this guy is a scientist and such, and is also a Christian, he has some good posts on resolving the two).
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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11-24-2007, 03:42 PM
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#18
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2006
Location: @HOOT250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr GonZo
Yessury Bob, check out "What the (bleep) do we know?" and the longer version "What the bleep? Down the Rabbit Hole". Link
Pretty awe-inspiring movies, even though it goes over my head sometimes. |
Thats crazy I have actually seen that one. Except I thought it was going to be something totally different when I went. Lets just say I was prepared for it and smoked a lil something, something beforehand so that didn't help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by photon
Both those movies are junk science combined with magical thinking, I would recommend staying away from both of them.
EDIT: Not a movie, but if you want a good book on quantum stuff, QED by Feynman is very accessible.
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This proves you do not know me at all
Haven't I heard this stuff mentioned before in "The Secret" book and movie?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by henriksedin33
Not at all, as I've said, I would rather start with LA over any of the other WC playoff teams. Bunch of underachievers who look good on paper but don't even deserve to be in the playoffs.
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11-24-2007, 03:59 PM
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#19
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The wagon's name is "Gaudreau"
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The English part isn't weird...but what IS weird is the ad for shaadi.com, "Experience the joy of marriage! Celebrating 10 years, over 1 million matches!" I guess this is where they match you up in marital happiness with the East Indian girl of your dreams.
__________________
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11-24-2007, 06:22 PM
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#20
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOT
Haven't I heard this stuff mentioned before in "The Secret" book and movie?
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Yeah, similar kind of thing, though The Secret has a lot more marketing $$ behind it.
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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