The SIM vs the NHL - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CMPunk · 11-12-2007, 10:23 PM

So, as in the Hawks/Ducks trade thread, noob mentioned Luongos play in the Sim. When you trade for a player are you looking strictly at name value and OV, or are you looking at how well he's playing in the Sim?

Luongo is playing like ass and has been traded 4 times this season. If the Hawks came to you offering him up, would you take him based on his play in the Sim or would you just figure he's on a bad team?

droopydrew19 · 11-12-2007, 10:27 PM

I think any player in the sim can thrive in the right situation. Look no further than Metropolit and Brown in Boston. With Luongo I think he may bounce around until he can find a good fit. Perhaps that may be in Chicago.

CMPunk · 11-12-2007, 10:29 PM

The Sim has made legends out of nobodies. I can't say I've ever really seen it destroy a name guy rated 84 before

Goffie · 11-12-2007, 10:29 PM

I agree with Drew, I think every player will thrive if placed with the right linemates. The example I think of last season when Afino was in Florida and Dave shuffled his lines and made trades until he found a good match and Afino thrived.

I wanna be like Miikka · 11-12-2007, 10:32 PM

YEah I agree with both Goff and Drew. It isnt like luongo was always bad in the sim, of late he hasnt found the right match, the hawks could fit that bill for him.

HelloHockeyFans · 11-12-2007, 10:37 PM

Yeah, the SIM's a tricky thing to figure out and I wouldn't be surprised if certain players just will not perform up to their ratings on a certain team despite the number of line juggling and what not. The interesting thing here is, with a forward, you can always switch up his line mates or move him to a different position, but what the hell do you do with a goalie who just isn't playing up to standards?

By the looks of it, you trade him and accept that for whatever reason, he just isn't working for your team.

Slava · 11-12-2007, 10:41 PM

In the case of Luongo I honestly think that the team in front has a lot to do with it, in a general sense. I have had a similar experience thus far with Vokoun who is rated 83, but goalies who have lower ratings are statistically better thus far.

Another situation for me has been Ruslan Salei...decent at 76OV, but useless until he found his way to the third pairing and now reasonable. I think that there is more to the sim than just putting together players with a high OV, but that certainly helps!

OILFAN #81 · 11-12-2007, 10:43 PM

Well I think the only way to find out is to trade Luongo to Atlanta.

In terms of the question, I look for both but primarily for the player/ov rather then sim play. As was mentioned, mainly all players can thrive in the sim if they are in the right conditions.

Hanna Sniper · 11-12-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMPunk

When you trade for a player are you looking strictly at name value and OV, or are you looking at how well he's playing in the Sim?

Both, depends of what player really. I would say that I fall in the 80% sim side of the scale, I end up acquiring a lot of players I hate but have the rating part of the game I'm looking for. But the big thing to remember and weighs heavily with the remaining 20% is that the name value will effect his status next year during the re-rates. So basically my building blocks of the team are the name value players and the parts I build around them are the ratings players.

More importantly I look at the ratings more then the OV

HelloHockeyFans · 11-12-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slava

In the case of Luongo I honestly think that the team in front has a lot to do with it, in a general sense. I have had a similar experience thus far with Vokoun who is rated 83, but goalies who have lower ratings are statistically better thus far.

Another situation for me has been Ruslan Salei...decent at 76OV, but useless until he found his way to the third pairing and now reasonable. I think that there is more to the sim than just putting together players with a high OV, but that certainly helps!

See, Vokoun is a perfect example for this discussion. He's certainly a guy who should perform a lot better than he consistently does. Even last year, he was an 82 but didn't really play like one.

Mango · 11-12-2007, 10:53 PM

A little bit of both....there are a few players out there that are SIM gods and if I'm making a trade, I take that into consideration.

KevanGuy · 11-12-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slava

Another situation for me has been Ruslan Salei...decent at 76OV, but useless until he found his way to the third pairing and now reasonable. I think that there is more to the sim than just putting together players with a high OV, but that certainly helps!

Im glad trying that out worked for you. Him having zero points in 12 games or whatever was pretty crazy.

As for the question in the original post, I think it depends on the player, his age, where he is in his career, etc.

Sylvanfan · 11-12-2007, 11:02 PM

Sort of depends where your team is too. If you're in a building phase, than I think you have to use NHL values as those impact ratings for the next year. But if you have the team and you're trying to win now, than it's all about SIM performers and SIM ratings. Like Billy Beane says....you either go for it, or you rebuild. Leave the middle ground for the mediocre.

nyrcrisfer · 11-13-2007, 12:04 PM

When it comes to skaters I rarely even look at a players performance in the sim to be honest. What does it matter? If he gets traded all that matter are his ratings and the ratings of my players who he'll be playing with. And as Noob said, if he doesn't perform you can always change the lines up.

With goalies it's different. It seems like every season half the goalies perform either much better or much worse than their ratings. And I'm not sure there's anyway to figure out which it will be. It's simply a tossup, so I do have to look a little at how that goalies is doing in the sim this season.

Mccree · 11-13-2007, 12:17 PM

The sim is a crazy thing. Some deals look wreied but then you look at the sim performancea and it looks ok. I think a rebuilding team should look more at the NHL were as a cup team might look at the sim performance more. Just my two cents.

JiriHrdina · 11-13-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMPunk

The Sim has made legends out of nobodies. I can't say I've ever really seen it destroy a name guy rated 84 before

I can't remember how high Naslund got in the sim - but he was at least an 82 and just wouldn't do anything - similar path to what we are seeing from Luongo this year - passed around from team to team - not producing for anyone.

JiriHrdina · 11-13-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

you either go for it, or you rebuild. Leave the middle ground for the mediocre.

I don't know if I agree. My focus has been on building a solid CPHL team while also having a pipeline of prospects coming along at various stages of development. Goffie seems to be doing the same thing in Pittsburgh.

I want my cake and I want to eat it.

Sylvanfan · 11-13-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't know if I agree. My focus has been on building a solid CPHL team while also having a pipeline of prospects coming along at various stages of development. Goffie seems to be doing the same thing in Pittsburgh.

I want my cake and I want to eat it.

Yeah, but your two teams met in the finals last year...I'm talking about teams who finish 7th to 16th place calibre talent. Once you get a team to the level of elite team there is a limit on how good you can make a team now due to the Cheese rule. So at that point it becomes about overall organizational improvement.

Fact is you yourself sold off many mediocre veterans in 2005 for young players because they were all rated so crappy and you sort of limped into the playoffs. But as a result you were able to build a foundation to make the finals the next year and win it this past season. Those moves at or around the 2005 deadline went a long ways towards getting your team where it is today.

JiriHrdina · 11-13-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Fact is you yourself sold off many mediocre veterans in 2005 for young players because they were all rated so crappy and you sort of limped into the playoffs. But as a result you were able to build a foundation to make the finals the next year and win it this past season. Those moves at or around the 2005 deadline went a long ways towards getting your team where it is today.

Fart you know what you're right.

Game. Set. Match.