Looking For Advice About SAIT's IT Program

[Nehkara]

Hello CP!

I am applying to SAIT for this fall and one of the programs I applied to was the IT program.

They have 4 majors to choose from and despite there being a common first semester, you must declare your major at registration (which is in the next week or so).

I was wondering if anyone here could give me some input into these choices (i.e. experience in the program, job availability, job type, salary, duties, hours, status of the field, future of the field, etc.). Any help will be greatly appreciated.


- Computer Systems Major

- Network Systems Major

- Software Development Major

- Telecom System Major


In all honesty I am mostly interested in the top 3 but if someone has information on Telecom careers or the program I would love to hear it.

Thanks again for any help!

[Nehkara]

Also, what are the opinions/experiences involving the Broadcast Systems Technology program?

I would be interested in that too.

[Hemi-Cuda]

looks like they renamed stuff since i went there. i graduated with a diploma from the Computer Engineering Technology program, and from reading the descriptions that's been changed to the Computer Systems Major. unless they radically altered the entire program, i would stay away from that one. when i took it, it was way too broad and tried to get you to learn everything from raw electronics, to programming, to networking, and everything in between. as a result you don't end up being proficient in anything and you have no clue on what job opportunities would be available with that diploma

if i could do it again i would have gone with the Network Engineering Technology (or Network Systems Major as it looks like now). they specialized in one area and knew exactly what kind of jobs would fit in with their skillset, plus after graduating students automatically got their CCNA cert, which is extremely valuable in the work place. as an example, i know a guy who graduated from NNT, was hired as a bottom rung TSR at Shaw, and within 6 months he was hired to Shaw's downtown operations center as a Network Analyst making 55K per year

so basically my advise is just to avoid the Computer Systems Major and pick a specific field that interests you. i learned the hard way that the all-in-one programs are virtually useless

[llama64]

I recently graduated (last April) from what used to be called Computer Technology (Info systems), which was a 2 year diploma. It offered programming training in Java beginning with the basics right up to a full year long project using real world software development practices to create a web based software application. It was a great place to learn a lot of technology in a short amount of time.

That said, things have dramatically changed. And I don't know if the instructors liked the changes since they spent my last semester complaining about how the schools adminstration was changing things without listening to them.

They just re-tooled the entire IT program to make it more competitive with Devry or some crap like that. Basically, the top three all share the first year of courses and you get a smattering of exposure to a bunch of programming languages. No more training in one language from start to finish. Also, they've ripped the two math courses (Linear Algebra and Calculas) out and replaced them with dumbed down things like "World of Information Technology". They also pulled out the one thing that made their program unique, the year long project in your second year. It's scope has now been reduced to a one semester course meaning it's size and complexity has gone down.

I assume the reason for this is to attract and graduate more students. Unfortunately that's gonna lower the reputation of the program in the industry since lazier people will beable to graduate.

SAIT is a great place to learn this stuff but I would seriously look at taking their 4 year Applied Degree program in IT over this new 2 year program. Hopefully they kept the majority of their instructors, but if many of them walked (as they were talking about doing last year), I'd be hesitant to recommend the program.

<rant>
To be fair, this change is endemic to the entire IT schooling field. Faced with lowering enrollment and graduation rates, many IT schools and faculties are starting to rework their programs. Unfortunately what usually occurs is that they go the Devry route and focus solely on the technical skills while pulling the theoretical/math based courses. In my opinion, that's a big mistake. but then, many companies don't need much more then a competant code monkey diligently working away on their 4th generation language without any understanding of what is going on underneath the virtual machine/JIT compiler.
</rant>

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by llama64

SAIT is a great place to learn this stuff but I would seriously look at taking their 4 year Applied Degree program in IT over this new 2 year program.

If you are going to take 4 years to get a degree, what are the reasons you would do it at SAIT vs UofC?

I am a CPSC Major at UofC , so I obviously don't know about the SAIT program in detail, mostly second hand knowledge and stuff I learned while I was investigating both schools. For me it seemed like a no-brainer, but that may have been due to my situation and the goals I have for myself when I am done school.

Now, while in my 3rd year, I really can't imagine being able to truly excel without the Math and Theory training I am receiving. If SAIT is cutting it out of thier program that just handcuffs their grads beyond as far as I am concerned...

Of course, as was mentioned, a 2 year degree will qualify you to be a 'code monkey' at an entry level for most coding shops.

[Bobblehead]

I took some night classes at SAIT. My biggest complaint would be that they were too easy. They seemed to not want anyone to fail. I guess failing someone would mean they would not sign up for the next course. But it is annoying when I have a practical use for these skills, want to learn as much as I can, and still see people who don't know anything achieve the same end certificate.

Mind you, I far preferred those courses to the 1 week, 40 hour courses for 3 times as much they offer downtown.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If you are going to take 4 years to get a degree, what are the reasons you would do it at SAIT vs UofC?

I am a CPSC Major at UofC , so I obviously don't know about the SAIT program in detail, mostly second hand knowledge and stuff I learned while I was investigating both schools. For me it seemed like a no-brainer, but that may have been due to my situation and the goals I have for myself when I am done school.

Now, while in my 3rd year, I really can't imagine being able to truly excel without the Math and Theory training I am receiving. If SAIT is cutting it out of thier program that just handcuffs their grads beyond as far as I am concerned...

Of course, as was mentioned, a 2 year degree will qualify you to be a 'code monkey' at an entry level for most coding shops.

I fully agree. I can't imagine trying to understand data structures, multi-dimensional arrays or algorithm efficiency without a basic understanding of the mathamtics behind it. Granted, I took what you did in your first semester and that was it, but even removing those from the program really degrades the whole education.

It takes a lot longer for an employer to train a CPSC graduate then a SAIT graduate, but usually they end up being many times more valuable since their understanding of algorithms, efficiency and general computer knowledge is much greater. If I hadn't already finished a 4 year degree at the UofC, I probably would have ended up in the Engineering Faculties Computer Engineering program. It's probably the best single program in the city for software development.

But really, a software developer's real training starts the moment they get hired at a decent employer. I've learned 10x working where I do then I ever did in school.

SAIT still looks like the best place to go to learn network administration.

[Nehkara]

Thank you guys very much for your comments.

I really like SAIT as a school so I am going to give them a shot. I am thinking that the Network Systems Major might be an interesting program.

I still can't entirely decide though. What kind of career potential am I looking at in terms of Network Systems versus Software Development?


The applied degree in Informations Systems is actually a 2 year program, but you have to have a diploma from another 2 year program before you take it. I am thinking I would probably go for 2 years, work for a bit, and then go back to take the applied degree.

[Bobblehead]

Really, figure out what you are more interested in doing. Software Development vs Network Systems are very different. You may be happy with either, but some people are very much oriented towards one of those paths and not the other.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Thank you guys very much for your comments.

I really like SAIT as a school so I am going to give them a shot. I am thinking that the Network Systems Major might be an interesting program.

I still can't entirely decide though. What kind of career potential am I looking at in terms of Network Systems versus Software Development?


The applied degree in Informations Systems is actually a 2 year program, but you have to have a diploma from another 2 year program before you take it. I am thinking I would probably go for 2 years, work for a bit, and then go back to take the applied degree.

You should be asking yourself what career you want, not about career potential. Decide what you want to do, and which is the more interesting to you, and go with that. You'll be happier in the long run.

If you decide to continue education after SAIT, you could also look at Athabasca University. It allows for credit transfers from SAIT for many courses, and you can do the courses on your own time while working. I decided to go this route when I found I still wanted to learn while working, and has worked out well.

[llama64]

It should be pointed out that in the tech industry it's your demonstrative skills that are important, not a piece of paper from a school.

The amount or level of education doesn't translate well to money earned in our field. Rather individual drive and competence have a greater impact. If you can pass the basic technical tests for any given job you apply for, your education means squat. Really, we spend 2-4 years getting a piece of paper just so we can get our foot in the door.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by llama64

It should be pointed out that in the tech industry it's your demonstrative skills that are important, not a piece of paper from a school.

The amount or level of education doesn't translate well to money earned in our field. Rather individual drive and competence have a greater impact. If you can pass the basic technical tests for any given job you apply for, your education means squat. Really, we spend 2-4 years getting a piece of paper just so we can get our foot in the door.

I completely understand this and it is why I am trying to choose the learning experience I want rather than the job at the end. I am confident that, if given the time of day, I could secure a computer job right now but I have no piece of paper. I am good with computers and can learn to do anything on them/with them.

I don't know much about networking and I find it interesting and there are plenty of jobs so I think that is where I am leaning.

[SarichFan]

What ever you do, do not take a programming course without being extremely knowledgable in that area.

I loved SAIT but their Fast-Track courses are just a Fast way to take your money and you leave not knowing much more than you went into it, all about credentials there.

[CaptainCrunch]

What no fire arms repairs, or child rearing technologist degree.

Hell the school on that match book cover that I picked up in the bar >>>> Sait

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

What no fire arms repairs, or child rearing technologist degree.

Hell the school on that match book cover that I picked up in the bar >>>> Sait

I highly disagree but to each their own.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wow, you took that seriously

I'd shoot at you, but my firearm is broken, and Sait doesn't train people to fix it.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow, you took that seriously

I'd shoot at you, but my firearm is broken, and Sait doesn't train people to fix it.

Sorry, my sarcasm sensor was malfunctioning.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by SarichFan

What ever you do, do not take a programming course without being extremely knowledgable in that area.

I loved SAIT but their Fast-Track courses are just a Fast way to take your money and you leave not knowing much more than you went into it, all about credentials there.

32 weeks it not enough time to teach someone proper basic programming skills let alone how to actually develop proper software.

I'd doubt that anyone who takes these without some prior qualifications will have much success passing a job interview at a decent company.

Still, a decent option if you are already working in the field and want to broaden your technical base. Probably cheaper to just take individual courses though.

[Bobblehead]

Can you take one or two of the courses before committing to the stream?

I'm just thinking it would suck being committed to one path and then realizing you really would have preferred the other.

Have you done any programming at any level with any language?

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Can you take one or two of the courses before committing to the stream?

I'm just thinking it would suck being committed to one path and then realizing you really would have preferred the other.

Have you done any programming at any level with any language?

I took CPSC at the university for a year... I did well in all of my courses except calculus and linear algebra but I was 17 years old then and I didn't apply myself properly in those classes.

So yes, I have some background in programming.