2007 Calgary Vipers Thread

[Juventus3]

I know Calgary is historically a city that doesn't get behind it's baseball teams, but with the beginning of the new Vipers season this weekend, I thought I'd give your friendly reminder that we do infact have professional baseball in this city...and the games are a lot of fun! Tonight they won in the 9th inning 11-10, a very exciting finish. When the weather is as beautiful as it was tonight, sitting watching a game of baseball maybe the most enjoyable activity around.

If you've never given baseball the light of day before, go check it out! Tickets are only about 10 bucks. Not a better deal on entertainment in this city.

Go Vipers Go!

[flambers]

I attended the Home openner; my boy's baseball team went out and stood in front of the Vipers for the openning Cermony.

Was a pretty good game except one inning.

[jamesteterenko]

I used to go to Goldeyes games when I lived in Winnipeg, and I really enjoyed it. I am now entering into my 7th summer in Calgary, and I have yet to watch a ball game here. I hear that the Vipers season has started off well, which is great. I hope to finally catch a game this season. I could see easily see myself going a few times.

James.

[Juventus3]

seriously? No one else went? That's crazy. Come on!

[FurnaceFace]

My company bought seasons and I was given tickets for Saturday. Baseball is a game I have never really gotten into so 9 innings is crazy long for me. I wish they played maybe 7 innings. I recall looking at my watch after the 5th inning and it was already two hours.

I'll have to give it another chance later in the season as I'm sure there will be lots of company tickets available. I did like the owner or someone from the front office who was walking around talking to us. He apologised for not having the club seating complete yet (they are adding a counter in front of the seats for you drinks and tinting the glass) which was good of him.

What surprised me the most was the low turnout. I wasn't expecting a packed house but I was expecting at least half full. There should be a lot of baseball fans in the city and at $20 or less a ticket it's good value.

It's just not an exciting sport for me to watch...now if it was Finnish baseball, that would be entertaining.

[Cowboy89]

I love baseball, but I don't have time for the Independent League. We have well over a million people in Calgary and its a shame that we have to duke it out with teams from places like Joliet. Sorry but this is way too small-league for me.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I love baseball, but I don't have time for the Independent League. We have well over a million people in Calgary and its a shame that we have to duke it out with teams from places like Joliet. Sorry but this is way too small-league for me.

Geez Mr. Bigtime, if you can name an affiliated league willing to allow a team in Calgary (or Canada for that matter) I'm all ears. In the meantime the Vipers are the last pro baseball team Calgary is going to get for a number of years. So you can either choose to deal with reality and watch indy baseball or fantasize about a minor league team that is never coming.

Just so you know the Vipers are in first place and looking like a damn good ball team.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Geez Mr. Bigtime, if you can name an affiliated league willing to allow a team in Calgary (or Canada for that matter) I'm all ears. In the meantime the Vipers are the last pro baseball team Calgary is going to get for a number of years. So you can either choose to deal with reality and watch indy baseball or fantasize about a minor league team that is never coming.

Just so you know the Vipers are in first place and looking like a damn good ball team.

I'll just watch the Blue Jays or Mariners thank you. I get to travel to Seattle and Toronto enough.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

What surprised me the most was the low turnout. I wasn't expecting a packed house but I was expecting at least half full. There should be a lot of baseball fans in the city and at $20 or less a ticket it's good value.

Oh, there are fans. Take a look at the seating chart for the Okotoks Dawgs field, and how many season tickets are sold, especially in sections 107 and 109: http://www.dawgsbaseball.ca/Tickets.html

The Vipers problem is that they - namely Peter Young - spent their first two years pissing everybody in Calgary off. As a result, they have alienated fans and buisnesses alike with their amateurish approach.

Nobody cares how much Gidney spent on new seats at the park, yet the Vipers will tell you ten times a day if you let them. Of course, it is noted that while Gidney had to put $1 million of his own money into the park this past year, the Dawgs were given a $4 million ballpark for free. Such is the world when the professional club is run by amateurs, and the amateur club is run by professionals.

The indoor baseball/lacrosse training facility is a much better project, and one that helps plant roots in the community. These are things that should have been done a while ago. If Gidney hopes to see the Northern League remain in Calgary long term, he had better expect a few more years of poor crowds, becuase he has a lot of ground to make up. Having a pretty good ball club, like Calgary does this year, may help.

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Oh, there are fans. Take a look at the seating chart for the Okotoks Dawgs field, and how many season tickets are sold, especially in sections 107 and 109: http://www.dawgsbaseball.ca/Tickets.html

The Vipers problem is that they - namely Peter Young - spent their first two years pissing everybody in Calgary off. As a result, they have alienated fans and buisnesses alike with their amateurish approach.

Nobody cares how much Gidney spent on new seats at the park, yet the Vipers will tell you ten times a day if you let them. Of course, it is noted that while Gidney had to put $1 million of his own money into the park this past year, the Dawgs were given a $4 million ballpark for free. Such is the world when the professional club is run by amateurs, and the amateur club is run by professionals.

The indoor baseball/lacrosse training facility is a much better project, and one that helps plant roots in the community. These are things that should have been done a while ago. If Gidney hopes to see the Northern League remain in Calgary long term, he had better expect a few more years of poor crowds, becuase he has a lot of ground to make up. Having a pretty good ball club, like Calgary does this year, may help.

The crowds are surprisingly low to me as well. What did the team do to piss people off?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

The crowds are surprisingly low to me as well. What did the team do to piss people off?

As Snakeye talked about they kicked the Dawgs who had a positive history in this city, out of Foothills - even though a shared arrangement made sense. They lost a lot of baseball supporters with that move.

But more than that, they made a real poor first impression on Calgary fans. The first game ever was marred by lack of staff, concessions and a delayed start time - all because they actually motivated 2,000 or so fans to come out and try it and dropped the ball by not being ready.

I've talked to some fans that went to that first game and they swore never to go back. The Vipers will never recover.

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

As Snakeye talked about they kicked the Dawgs who had a positive history in this city, out of Foothills - even though a shared arrangement made sense. They lost a lot of baseball supporters with that move.

But more than that, they made a real poor first impression on Calgary fans. The first game ever was marred by lack of staff, concessions and a delayed start time - all because they actually motivated 2,000 or so fans to come out and try it and dropped the ball by not being ready.

I've talked to some fans that went to that first game and they swore never to go back. The Vipers will never recover.

honestly, i find that to be ridiculous. Of course there are going to be problems the first day of business. Hell, the golf course I joined forgot to cut a hole on one of the greens the first day it was open 15 years ago. I didn't boycott the course becasue of something that happened the first day...

The dawgs being kicked out may be reason to get a bit upset...but again, holding grudges for that long doesn't seem to do anyone good.

about 1200 people were at the game on saturday. That's not a horrible showing...I'm not sure how many seats burns stadium (or whatever it's called now) can hold...must be around 5 or so.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

honestly, i find that to be ridiculous. Of course there are going to be problems the first day of business.

Fans showed up expecting a professional operation and instead they were forced to wait in lines for 45 minutes to even get in the stadium where they found they couldn't get food because there weren't enough concessions.

That's just bad business. You know what they say about first impressions.

[Resolute 14]

To be fair to the Vipers, that first game (which was actually attended by 4100 people), they got to that point with only eight weeks to build an organization entirely from scratch after the original owners walked away from the team.

At that point, the team had no in game entertainment, no advertising, and for the first couple months or so, all you got with your ticket was a ball game. That did drive a lot of fans away.

The bigger problem, IMO, is that in year one, there was almost no improvement throughout the entire season. It want until about midway through their second season that the Dawgs in game production started to get noticably better.

Add a litany of other problems. The POS system they had was crap, and I told them so about four times. Any itme more than 1000 real people showed up, lines would get bogged waiting on the computer system. They finally replaced that for this year. Concessions poorly set up. Each concession stand has four lines, but one jar each of ketchup and mustard. So, after getting out of line for a hot dog, you were right back in line to put something on it. Mike Busch (the manager) has run at least four players off this team in two years due to a clash with his ego. All these things add up.

The well publicized fued with the Dawgs cost them a lot of support. The Dawgs organization is 12 years old, and had a lot of support from within the buisness community. They had a season ticket base of over 1000 a couple years ago, and 80% of that was corporations. Most of the tickets were never used, but companies wanted to support the team.

The Vipers made their lives a living hell in 2005, then kicked them out of the park outright in 2006. As a result, buisnesses were tripping over eachother to help build the Dawgs a new home. Their home opener is June 8. If you want, head down and check the difference in how the operations are run.

And I say all of this having been to about 40 Vipers games in the first two years. I love baseball, and I go to support the teams. For their first two seasons, the Vipers have been a team that only a diehard could enjoy.

[worth]

The Opener sold 2,093 tickets ro something close to that. And thats sold tickets, not actual attendance. Here's a letter I wrote to the local media.

The Vipers started their third season of Baseball in Calgary this weekend. I’m a casual fan, and I use that term loosely since I only went to one game last year, but I decided to go with a friend to the home opener on Friday, and the second game of their current series on Saturday. I can tell you without a work of a lie that I had a great time at both games, and so did the crowd. The Vipers lost their home opener, but came storming back on Saturday with an exciting 9th inning comeback win. Announced attendance on Friday was just over 2,000 and on Saturday, which was a beautiful afternoon for a baseball game, was 1,400.

The current owner has put millions of dollars into upgrading Foothills stadium. The Vipers have the largest video screen in the Northern League, and recently spent over $1 million to install new seats so that every seat now has a back, as well as new club seats. I have had discussions with friends, and some say the ownerships priorities are in the wrong order. That upgrading the washroom facilities and concessions are more important that the adequate seating that was in place. In addition the new club seating installed is not the way to attract corporate clients like a box up top would. Even so, sitting and listening to the owners opening remarks on Friday before that game made me feel very sorry for him. He has put his own money into providing the community with an upgraded facility in trying to bring in more people and better atmosphere for the fans, yet the city doesn’t seem to care.

Is this city a one sport town? I hear constant hockey talk about the Flames, and how they could sell an ungodly number of tickets for every game, yet the roughnecks offer a great entertainment package and can only average 10,000, the Stamps should be sold out every game in my opinion, and the Vipers, as the season goes on, may only average a few hundred like the previous two years.

A lot of people say baseball is boring, and I can understand where their coming from. I don’t watch too much baseball on TV myself. But the baseball that is offered in this city provides people the chance to get out into the sunshine for a few hours, sit back and have a hot dog and beer and watch a team that has got off to a spectacular 7-3 start to the season.

I truly hope that there will always be some kind of baseball in this city, because I know there are baseball fans out there. How AAA teams have died off in this country is very sad. A few more seasons like last year where 200 people show up for a game, and there won’t be any professional baseball in the city ever again.

The fans that were at the games this weekend were great and the team is off to their best start ever and lead the entire league in wins. The ownership has committed to the fans by putting money into Foothills Stadium and upgrading many amenities. It’s time for sports fans in Calgary to embrace this team, along with the other teams in this city like we do the Flames. I can’t imagine what the players that play for the Vipers feel about coming home after a road trip when they play in front only a handful of die hards. The team is winning, (overlooking the drubbing yesterday), there is hardly a better value in the city, (admission, 2 beer and 2 Spolumbos for $24), and what’s better than sitting on a nice sunny afternoon having a beer and watching the game?

[Resolute 14]

^ Actually, 10,000 for the Roughnecks (actually was over 12,500 this year) is a remarkably good number for the NLL. Calgary finished 4th in league attendance this year.

[worth]

Yes, I know. I follow the NLL closely.

My point was that with a limited number of games, and for the entertainment value you get out of it, that buliding should sell out no problem.

[Resolute 14]

The building should, and maybe it eventually will. Given that there was virtually no lacrosse community in Calgary when the Roughnecks were formed in 2001, to pull in over 100,000 fans this year shows remarkable growth. It takes time to build a product.

And relating this back to the topic at hand, the Roughnecks have generally done a good job building an entertaining product that people want to see. Your letter to the paper regarding the Vipers places a lot of blame on the fans, whereas I believe the greater fault lies with Gidney and Young failing to build a product that will entice people back to the ballpark.

[worth]

Fair enough. The blame can go both ways. But the way to entice people to come is to win. And get media coverage for winning. I think the roughnecks winning the championship went a long way for their current fan support. That was a great game, loud and sold out and got people excited.

If the Vipers can field a competitive squad and make the playoffs, perhaps it will go a ways in making people come back to the stadium. Other than that I don't know what else they can do. Prices are so cheap compared to everything else it's unreal. Don't even have to pay for parking.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

The building should, and maybe it eventually will. Given that there was virtually no lacrosse community in Calgary when the Roughnecks were formed in 2001, to pull in over 100,000 fans this year shows remarkable growth. It takes time to build a product.

And relating this back to the topic at hand, the Roughnecks have generally done a good job building an entertaining product that people want to see. Your letter to the paper regarding the Vipers places a lot of blame on the fans, whereas I believe the greater fault lies with Gidney and Young failing to build a product that will entice people back to the ballpark.

I was heavily involved with the former Calgary Cannons throughout the mid to late 90s. The Cannons owner, Russ Parker, was willing to invest alot of his own money into a new stadium downtown or massive improvements to Foothills Stadium. However, the city never offered any assistance. That was the beginning of the end for the highest level of baseball you can get without being in the majors. Foothills park was by far the worst AAA park in the league and most players said that it was in the bottom half of single A parks.

To be honest, I think Calgary's fans are fickle and really only want a hockey team and the CFL. Lacrosse has been successful so far, but their format (1 game every few weeks) and the facilities allow for fans to become more engaged with the product. Calgary has tried basketball and a variety of baseball with limited success.

I agree that Young hasnt run the team well, but even if he had, I dont think the results would have been that much different. The stadium is terrible, the location is terrible, the product (Independent baseball....compared to AAA) is poor and there isnt any sign from the city that they are interested in anything other than the NHL and CFL.