Bush vows Palestinian state by terms end

[transplant99]

Interesting development.

Homeland for the forgotten?

[Cowperson]

It's gotta happen. I made it one of my calls in the prediction thread so I need it.

Still, there has to be some people on the Palestinian put out of business for it to happen and only the Palestinians can actually do that. The Israeli's can at least handle their own screwballs.

Cowperson

[HOZ]

Overly ambitious. It would depend on whether the Palestinians can overcvome their, so far, unfailing ability to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity

[FlamesAddiction]

Well if there is one thing we know about Bush is that he has never been wrong about politics and expectations in the Middle East.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Nov 12 2004, 09:09 PM
Well if there is one thing we know about Bush is that he has never been wrong about politics and expectations in the Middle East.

As always...you are a complete meatball. Can you name any President that was never wrong? Hey, I will make it easier for you...anyone at all?

[Mike F]

Not unless there are some significant and unforeseen additional events. You still have to get rid of one more leader who has no interest in a real and meaningful peace settlement.

In addition, none of the Palestinians who the US favour to take over leadership have any credibility with the Palestinian street or militant groups, and you need both with you when you make a deal. Regardless of how any Westerners saw Arafat, Palestinians supported him because they saw him as someone who had fought for the cause, while this new group which appears to be taking over is just a bunch of bureaucrats.

I agree with Middle East pundits like Tom Freidman who say that a Palestinian coalition capable of agreeing to a meaningful peace settlement will have to include Hamas and could bring them to the table, as opposed to one which doesn't include them but claims that it can control them.

Finally, I had to laugh at Bush's comment in his recent press conference that he was going to "spend some of his political capital on this issue." While he may have some capital domestically coming out of the election, Internationally he is still the guy that thumbed his nose at the international community going into Iraq, just to have it blow up in his face.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by HOZ+Nov 12 2004, 03:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HOZ @ Nov 12 2004, 03:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction@Nov 12 2004, 09:09 PM
Well if there is one thing we know about Bush is that he has never been wrong about politics and expectations in the Middle East.

As always...you are a complete meatball. Can you name any President that was never wrong? Hey, I will make it easier for you...anyone at all? [/b][/quote]
Geez that was quicker than usual with the insults.

I do agree that everyone makes mistakes. Can you name another President that ever started a war based on completely and utterly wrong information?

[Bingo]

Very tough situation.

I can see the point that Hamas has to be involved for a settlement to stick, yet I can't see anyone agreeing that you allow a terrorist group at a negotiating table.

The real question is how (what carrot? what stick?) can you get a new Palestinian leadership group to clamp down on Hamas and terrorism within it's own borders? Until you have self policing of the issue you'll never get a settlement.

[Daradon]

Overly ambitious I think.

1. As Mike F. said, none of the leaders the U.S. favors have any credibility with the Palestinian street or militia groups. A deal might be brokered with these leaders but no one in Palastine will follow them and thee could be a civil war or just the type of situation we are seeing in Iraq. And of course if this happens, more Isreali targets will be bombed, and Isreal will back out.

2. It is unlikely that a compromise will be met that won't have Ariel giving up more than he wants. He's shown to be a bit stubborn lately and doesn't look to be willing to hand over any more than he has already suggested. If a deal is reached that is ok with the Isreali's look for the majority of the Palestinian street groups to be very severly angered by their leader reverting back to my first point.

3. Bush has shown the world what an excellent diplomat he is. Plus we all know how much credibility he has in the Arab world now. Possible they might just say no to everything because he is brokering the deal.

I'd love to see it happen, even considering I might have to eat some crow on my opinions on Bush, but I really doubt any last agreement will be reached. Sure an agreement might be reached, a deal might be signed, but nothing that both sides adheres to for every long.

[peter12]

Originally posted by Bingo@Nov 12 2004, 05:12 PM
Very tough situation.

I can see the point that Hamas has to be involved for a settlement to stick, yet I can't see anyone agreeing that you allow a terrorist group at a negotiating table.

The real question is how (what carrot? what stick?) can you get a new Palestinian leadership group to clamp down on Hamas and terrorism within it's own borders? Until you have self policing of the issue you'll never get a settlement.

I think that somehow the majority of Palestinians and Israelis have to agree to go out and kick the sh*t out of Hamas together. It happened in the 90s, they just need to sustain it. I agree, no way Hamas gets to sit down at any negotiating table.

[Daradon]

Originally posted by peter12+Nov 12 2004, 07:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peter12 @ Nov 12 2004, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bingo@Nov 12 2004, 05:12 PM
Very tough situation.

I can see the point that Hamas has to be involved for a settlement to stick, yet I can't see anyone agreeing that you allow a terrorist group at a negotiating table.

The real question is how (what carrot? what stick?) can you get a new Palestinian leadership group to clamp down on Hamas and terrorism within it's own borders? Until you have self policing of the issue you'll never get a settlement.

I think that somehow the majority of Palestinians and Israelis have to agree to go out and kick the sh*t out of Hamas together. It happened in the 90s, they just need to sustain it. I agree, no way Hamas gets to sit down at any negotiating table. [/b][/quote]
:biglaff:

Hamas will be ther for a while yet...

I guess while we are all dreaming we might be able to manifest WMD's east of Fallujah.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Nov 12 2004, 11:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Nov 12 2004, 11:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

As always...you are a complete meatball. Can you name any President that was never wrong? Hey, I will make it easier for you...anyone at all?

Geez that was quicker than usual with the insults.

I do agree that everyone makes mistakes. Can you name another President that ever started a war based on completely and utterly wrong information? [/b][/quote]
JFK