Bush commutes "Scooter" Libby sentence.

[Bobblehead]

So no jail time involved.

“I respect the jury’s verdict,” Bush said in a statement. “But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby’s sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison.”

link

[RougeUnderoos]

Well it's not what you know....

This is a big surprise. Usually George and his cronies follow all the rules. They are big into accountability and honesty and all that good stuff.

[Claeren]

Frikkin disgusting.

So basically Scooter Libby was put before a jury of American Citizens who found him guilty and who specifically stated his crime was serious enough to merit jail time and George Bush has overruled those American citizens and commuted his sentence?!?!?!

HOLY America is corrupt.




Claeren.

[La Flames Fan]

Amazing. Just as Claeren says, it's disgusting. Though in all reality, Libby was as far as I'm concerned the fall guy. The real criminal in the leak scandal was either Cheney himself or Karl Rove.

[Igottago]

This is unreal. Talk about making a mockery of the justice system, and the country. Americans should be outraged.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Igottago

This is unreal. Talk about making a mockery of the justice system, and the country. Americans should be outraged.

Agreed, at least the Liberals' fallguy Chuck Guite actually had to serve time in prison. Meanwhile Chretien gets the 'Order of Canada.' Can't escape the corruption anywhere I guess .

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by La Flames Fan

Amazing. Just as Claeren says, it's disgusting. Though in all reality, Libby was as far as I'm concerned the fall guy. The real criminal in the leak scandal was either Cheney himself or Karl Rove.

Seems like this was Libby's payoff for keeping his mouth shut.
Clinton pardoned some unsavory characters too, still no excuse.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Seems like this was Libby's payoff for keeping his mouth shut.
Clinton pardoned some unsavory characters too, still no excuse.

I don't get this at all.

First of all IF it is really not an excuse why are you bringing it up?

Second of all, TELL ME who he pardoned that is even remotely in the same league as this in terms of corruption??

We are talking about lying to the American people and sabatoge of virtually everyone of its institutions (including 'media' and 'intelligence') by the executive branch in order to illegitamitely gain public backing to start a war that has cost a hundred thousand lives, likely a TRILLION or more dollars by the time it is done and actually managed to make the world a more dangerous place ALL while lining the pockets of Bush, Cheney and Libby's closest friends and backers - interestingly the only benefit i know of these actions - and then having the ONE person who actually managed to get caught being pardoned and in doing so crushing ANY little authority the judicial branch has left in government and over-ruling the JURY OF PEERS called to judge the case in the first place as set out in the constitution itself?!??!?!?

COME ON MAN!!! It is a new low, democrat or republican, and it is disgusting and shows how threatened the entire democratic process is in America...




Claeren.

[Hack&Lube]

Can somebody tell me what this whole Plame affair is about anyway? It was too confusing for me to understand.

Somebody's wife was a CIA agent, they were trying to link Iraq with Nigerian Uranium. CIA said there was no link. Whitehouse kept fudging it. Journalists somehow get the name of the CIA agent and then there is some kind of attempt by the FBI to find the leak? What is deal?

[Cowperson]

Stripping out all the political rhetoric, it would be interesting to know, as with Paris Hilton, whether or not his sentence was harsher, lighter or the same as other convictions in comparable circumstances (conviction of lying and obstructing justice).

Cowperson

[Alana Flames]

Originally Posted by Claeren

We are talking about lying to the American people and sabatoge of virtually everyone of its institutions (including 'media' and 'intelligence') by the executive branch...

Claeren.

Unfortunatley, in the states the media and the government go hand in hand. Media is just as corupt as the government and visa versa.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Can somebody tell me what this whole Plame affair is about anyway? It was too confusing for me to understand.

Somebody's wife was a CIA agent, they were trying to link Iraq with Nigerian Uranium. CIA said there was no link. Whitehouse kept fudging it. Journalists somehow get the name of the CIA agent and then there is some kind of attempt by the FBI to find the leak? What is deal?

The Coles Notes version is that Joseph Wilson was an Ambassador for GWB in Africa before the Iraq war. After he retired, and 4 months after the Iraq war started, he wrote an op-ed for the New York Times that was highly critical of GWB and saying that the evidence of WMD was blown out of proportion as an excuse to go to war.
A week later, an article by journalist Robert Novac was written talking about Wilson, and in it he mentioned that Wilson did not work for the CIA, but his wife did work for the CIA.
That exposed an active CIA agent (Valerie Plame was her maiden name), and therefore whoever told Novak that Plame was an agent had broken the law.
Libby has been convicted of obstructing and lying to the investigation into the leak.

[Flame On]

Anyone remember what Bush said at the time this was found out about what he'll (admin) do if and when they do find out who the leak was?
I remember it being emphatic....

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Anyone remember what Bush said at the time this was found out about what he'll (admin) do if and when they do find out who the leak was?
I remember it being emphatic....

"If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is," Bush told reporters at an impromptu news conference during a fund-raising stop in Chicago, Illinois. "If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of.
"I welcome the investigation. I am absolutely confident the Justice Department will do a good job.
"I want to know the truth," the president continued. "Leaks of classified information are bad things."
He added that he did not know of "anybody in my administration who leaked classified information."
Bush said he has told his administration to cooperate fully with the investigation and asked anyone with knowledge of the case to come forward.

link

So after saying all this, the Chief-of-Staff of the Vice-President then committed purjury and obstruction.



And as for who actually leaked the info, from the article linked in the OP:

Nobody was ever charged with the leak, including Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage or White House political adviser Karl Rove, who provided the information for the original article. Prosecutors said Libby obstructed the investigation by lying about how he learned about Plame and whom he told.

[Kool Keef]

Originally Posted by Claeren

I don't get this at all.

First of all IF it is really not an excuse why are you bringing it up?

Second of all, TELL ME who he pardoned that is even remotely in the same league as this in terms of corruption??

We are talking about lying to the American people and sabatoge of virtually everyone of its institutions (including 'media' and 'intelligence') by the executive branch in order to illegitamitely gain public backing to start a war that has cost a hundred thousand lives, likely a TRILLION or more dollars by the time it is done and actually managed to make the world a more dangerous place ALL while lining the pockets of Bush, Cheney and Libby's closest friends and backers - interestingly the only benefit i know of these actions - and then having the ONE person who actually managed to get caught being pardoned and in doing so crushing ANY little authority the judicial branch has left in government and over-ruling the JURY OF PEERS called to judge the case in the first place as set out in the constitution itself?!??!?!?

First off, you're way too emotional about this.

Second, and more important -- Libby wasn't pardoned. He had his sentence commuted. Simply put, the man doesn't serve any jail time. He still has to pay the fine of $250,000 and the charges stick. He can't even vote anymore. If it's still not enough for you then fine, you're entitled to your outrage, but if you're going to be this steamed about something at least have your facts in order.

Finally, here is a list of the "controversial" pardons and commutations by Clinton from Wikipedia. You can judge for yourself if any of these guys are in the same league as Libby.

• Carlos A. Vignali had his sentence for cocaine trafficking commuted, after serving 6 of 15 years in federal prison.
• Almon Glenn Braswell was pardoned of his mail fraud and perjury convictions, even while a federal investigation was underway regarding additional money laundering and tax evasion charges.[12] Braswell and Carlos Vignali each paid approximately $200,000 to Hillary Clinton's brother, Hugh Rodham, to represent their respective cases for clemency. Hugh Rodham returned the payments after they were disclosed to the public. Braswell would later invoke the Fifth Amendment at a Senate Committee hearing in 2001, when questioned about allegations of his having systematically defrauded senior citizens of millions of dollars.[13]
• Marc Rich, a fugitive, was pardoned of tax evasion, after clemency pleas from Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, among many other international luminaries. Denise Rich, Marc's former wife, was a close friend of the Clintons and had made substantial donations to both Clinton's library and Hillary's Senate campaign. Clinton agreed to a pardon that required Marc Rich to pay a $100,000,000 fine before he could return to the United States. According to Paul Volcker's independent investigation of Iraqi Oil-for-Food kickback schemes, Marc Rich was a middleman for several suspect Iraqi oil deals involving over 4 million barrels of oil.[14]
• Susan McDougal, who had already completed her sentence, was pardoned for her role in the Whitewater scandal; McDougal had served 18 months on contempt charges for refusing to testify about Clinton's role.
• Dan Rostenkowski, a former Democratic Congressman convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal. Rostenkowski had served his entire sentence.
• Melvin J. Reynolds, a Democratic Congressman from Illinois, who was convicted of bank fraud, 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice, and solicitation of child pornography had his sentence commuted on the bank fraud charged and was allowed to serve the final months under the auspices of a half way house. He had served his entire sentence on child sex abuse charges before the commutation of the later convictions.
• Roger Clinton, the president's half-brother, on drug charges after having served the entire sentence more than a decade before. Roger Clinton would be charged with drunk driving and disorderly conduct in an unrelated incident within a year of the pardon.[15] He was also briefly alleged to have been utilized in lobbying for the Braswell pardon, among others.

Originally Posted by Claeren

COME ON MAN!!! It is a new low, democrat or republican, and it is disgusting and shows how threatened the entire democratic process is in America...

Now that's just dumb.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by Kool Keef

First off, you're way too emotional about this.

Second, and more important -- Libby wasn't pardoned. He had his sentence commuted. Simply put, the man doesn't serve any jail time. He still has to pay the fine of $250,000 and the charges stick. He can't even vote anymore. If it's still not enough for you then fine, you're entitled to your outrage, but if you're going to be this steamed about something at least have your facts in order.

Finally, here is a list of the "controversial" pardons and commutations by Clinton from Wikipedia. You can judge for yourself if any of these guys are in the same league as Libby.

• Carlos A. Vignali had his sentence for cocaine trafficking commuted, after serving 6 of 15 years in federal prison.
• Almon Glenn Braswell was pardoned of his mail fraud and perjury convictions, even while a federal investigation was underway regarding additional money laundering and tax evasion charges.[12] Braswell and Carlos Vignali each paid approximately $200,000 to Hillary Clinton's brother, Hugh Rodham, to represent their respective cases for clemency. Hugh Rodham returned the payments after they were disclosed to the public. Braswell would later invoke the Fifth Amendment at a Senate Committee hearing in 2001, when questioned about allegations of his having systematically defrauded senior citizens of millions of dollars.[13]
• Marc Rich, a fugitive, was pardoned of tax evasion, after clemency pleas from Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, among many other international luminaries. Denise Rich, Marc's former wife, was a close friend of the Clintons and had made substantial donations to both Clinton's library and Hillary's Senate campaign. Clinton agreed to a pardon that required Marc Rich to pay a $100,000,000 fine before he could return to the United States. According to Paul Volcker's independent investigation of Iraqi Oil-for-Food kickback schemes, Marc Rich was a middleman for several suspect Iraqi oil deals involving over 4 million barrels of oil.[14]
• Susan McDougal, who had already completed her sentence, was pardoned for her role in the Whitewater scandal; McDougal had served 18 months on contempt charges for refusing to testify about Clinton's role.
• Dan Rostenkowski, a former Democratic Congressman convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal. Rostenkowski had served his entire sentence.
• Melvin J. Reynolds, a Democratic Congressman from Illinois, who was convicted of bank fraud, 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice, and solicitation of child pornography had his sentence commuted on the bank fraud charged and was allowed to serve the final months under the auspices of a half way house. He had served his entire sentence on child sex abuse charges before the commutation of the later convictions.
• Roger Clinton, the president's half-brother, on drug charges after having served the entire sentence more than a decade before. Roger Clinton would be charged with drunk driving and disorderly conduct in an unrelated incident within a year of the pardon.[15] He was also briefly alleged to have been utilized in lobbying for the Braswell pardon, among others.

Now that's just dumb.

None of those come close to the Scooter Libby crimes in impact on America as a hole, and in almost all of those cases the convicted parties STILL spent time in jail AND Clinton himself was not involved in the crimes themselves to anywhere near the degree that George Bush was in the Scooter Libby scenario.


Bush is commuting the sentence of the person taking the fall for BUSH HIMSELF! Essentially the crime benefited the Bush administration and now they are dismissing the judicaries enforcement of American law against that administration.

It essentially means that the Executive Branch can leak any information true or untrue, classfied or unclassified for any purpose without any consequence.

There is supposed to be a balance of powers in government - this is proof that the balance no longer exists which by definition results in curruption (hence the reason why the balance of powers was supposed to exist in the first place.)


Claeren.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Claeren

None of those come close to the Scooter Libby crimes in impact on America as a hole,

Claeren.

How did this case impact on America as a hole? Did outing a "secretary" affected everyone that much?

Compared to Fords pardon on Slick Willie this is pretty soft stuff. At least Libby didn't commit a crime.

[Claeren]

Actually he did commit a crime. He was convicted of it. That is the entire point... ?!?!?!


Apparently Bush is refusing to rule out a full pardon before the end of his term:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070704/...ZB02X3rHUL1vAI

And was it a severe or unusual punishment?

Three of every four people convicted of obstruction of justice have been sent to prison over the past two years, a total of 283 people, according to federal judiciary data. The average term was more than five years. The largest group of defendants were sentenced to between 13 and 31 months in prison, exactly where Libby would have fallen on the charts.

I guess only if you have powerful friends that you are taking the fall for is it a severe punishment?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Actually he did commit a crime. He was convicted of it. That is the entire point... ?!?!?!


Apparently Bush is refusing to rule out a full pardon before the end of his term:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070704/...ZB02X3rHUL1vAI

And was it a severe or unusual punishment?


I guess only if you have powerful friends that you are taking the fall for is it a severe punishment?

I apologise. He was convicted of one count of obstruction, two counts of perjury and one count of lying to the FBI about how he learned Plame’s identity and whom he told. Prosecutors said he learned about Plame from Cheney and others, discussed her name with reporters and, fearing prosecution, made up a story to make those discussions seem innocuous.

But how exactly did this impact the whole entire nation of the United States of America?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Stripping out all the political rhetoric, it would be interesting to know, as with Paris Hilton, whether or not his sentence was harsher, lighter or the same as other convictions in comparable circumstances (conviction of lying and obstructing justice).

Cowperson

I'm pretty sure the magnitude of the lies is a big factor in the sentencing. This isn't someone obstructing justice over a shoplifting charge.