Shoplifter awarded $12,000 in damages

[RedHot25]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...r.html?ref=rss

An admitted shoplifter has been awarded $12,000 for injuries he suffered during an altercation with a security guard and a store manager at a Lower Mainland Superstore nearly three years ago.

...

The two employees grabbed him by the arm as he tried to leave the store. Baines tried to pull away, and the three men began to struggle.
All three ended up stumbling down the stairs, and Baines got kicked and punched during the altercation that led to his arrest.
He lost a tooth, and said he can no longer chew properly or speak properly.

[Bobblehead]

The headline is misleading.

In the end, B.C. Supreme Court Justice William Ehrcke ruled Baines did not deserve to be kicked or punched, and assessed damages at $15,000.

So it wasn't even the scuffle that was the cause of the award, it was the additional kicking and punching.

That said, I don't think the shoplifter should get a dime. The money should go to charity or something like that.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't have any sympathy for this guy, and in my mind you shouldn't be allowed to sue somebody if your committing a crime.

But on the ohter hand if they were throwing kicks and punches . . .

[corporatejay]

Trust me, the last thing we want is managers and "security" guards being able to kick and punch people.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Trust me, the last thing we want is managers and "security" guards being able to kick and punch people.

Yeah, when I (very briefly) worked security we were specifically instructed not to attempt physical intervention... thats why they gave us notepads and pens, to write down what we saw. Of course, that didn't stop me one time from chasing down a shoplifter and getting a watch back... once the guy realized he had been found out he just handed it over.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I have no sympathy for shop lifters at all (maybe it's the 5 years of retail in me) I once heard a story of a manager in our company chasing a guy down, jumping on his back and hauling him down by his neck.

Who the fark do you think you are walking into a store and just taking stuff?!

[Sparks]

Sounds fair to me. People (including security guards) are allowed to use only reasonable force to remove trespassers from their property. The fact that he was committing a crime doesn't give security a free ticket to do whatever they want, including breaking laws themselves.

[Red]

The shoplifter sure learned his lesson. I am sure he will never attempt to steal again.
Quite the times we're living in :-(

[Rerun]

In the end, B.C. Supreme Court Justice William Ehrcke ruled Baines did not deserve to be kicked or punched, and assessed damages at $15,000.

I guess that says it all.... and I tend to agree.

I mean... what is the cut off point for when you deserve to be kicked and punched because you stole something from a store... $10? $20? $50? $100? $500?

[Jayems]

So, were the security guards charged for assault or what?

[Kev]

Good example of what's wrong with this world.

I think people wave all rights to their own safety from the time they commit the crime until they are caught. Society puts laws in place to protect everyone, including criminals, and by breaking the law you are going outside the realm of safety according to the law, and should be personally responsible for anything bad that happens as a result of these actions.

It's like bull fighters that get caught by the bull, no sympathy. Bad decisions usually lead to bad results.

[VanCity Cowboy]

You should lose some rights, after you are found guilty of the crime, not just because of some security monkey thinks you did something.

I love the fact that in Canada, they can't do anything to detain you, if they could it would drive me crazy because my cell seems to set off all the security sensors. If they could force me to empty my bag or pockets every time that happened i'd be pissed.

I hope all you with no sympathy for criminals don't complain if some 10$/hour security guards punch you out because he thinks you stole something.

Why didn't they just kill the shoplifter? i mean, easier for everyone.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by Kev

I think people wave all rights to their own safety from the time they commit the crime until they are caught.

So, guilty until proven innocent for you?

Originally Posted by Kev

Good example of what's wrong with this world.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

So, guilty until proven innocent for you?

Yeah, ummm, no, not even close to what I was saying.

Originally Posted by VanCity Cowboy

I hope all you with no sympathy for criminals don't complain if some 10$/hour security guards punch you out because he thinks you stole something.

Yeah, if they caught me stealing (with proof I might add), and I tried to get away, and caused all three of us to fall down the stairs because of my stupidity, I would expect the ones trying to catch me would be a tiny bit pissed for dragging them down the stairs.

So for you two human rights activists (gottabekd and VanCity). If I break into your house looking to steal something, and in the process, end up falling through the window and breaking my jaw and chipping a tooth and can't chew properly anymore, would you be alright with it if I sued you personally for damages?

How about if you caught me with your TV in my hands, and you tackled me, and we fell down your stairs, and the same result, I broke my jaw, chipped my tooth, and now I couldn't enjoy my Timmy's breakfast sandwiches anymore, would you appreciate the fact that I am now suing you for as much money as I possibly can get?

Are you two from BC by chance?

[Red]

Originally Posted by VanCity Cowboy

You should lose some rights, after you are found guilty of the crime, not just because of some security monkey thinks you did something.

I love the fact that in Canada, they can't do anything to detain you, if they could it would drive me crazy because my cell seems to set off all the security sensors. If they could force me to empty my bag or pockets every time that happened i'd be pissed.

I hope all you with no sympathy for criminals don't complain if some 10$/hour security guards punch you out because he thinks you stole something.

Why didn't they just kill the shoplifter? i mean, easier for everyone.

Let's not dramatize here. It's not ok for the security guards to assault shoplifters etc, but why go to the extreme and award the "victim" a reward? Punish the shoplifter for stealing and punish the guards for assault. Case closed, no rewards for anyone.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Red

Let's not dramatize here. It's not ok for the security guards to assault shoplifters etc, but why go to the extreme and award the "victim" a reward? Punish the shoplifter for stealing and punish the guards for assault. Case closed, no rewards for anyone.

Say my 17 year old son did something stupid and tried to steal a few CD's from a record store and then he got caught in the act and got scared and tried to flee. The security guard and store manager caught up with him and beat the hell out of him.

Sue? You're damn right I'd sue! I'd sue the store, the manager, and the guard for every penny I could. Sure... what my son did (now this is hypothetical) was wrong and he will be punished by the courts... but what the manager and the guard did was even more wrong and they too will be punished by the courts (hopefully) and they will also be punished by me!

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Kev

Yeah, ummm, no, not even close to what I was saying.

Yeah, if they caught me stealing (with proof I might add), and I tried to get away, and caused all three of us to fall down the stairs because of my stupidity, I would expect the ones trying to catch me would be a tiny bit pissed for dragging them down the stairs.

So for you two human rights activists (gottabekd and VanCity). If I break into your house looking to steal something, and in the process, end up falling through the window and breaking my jaw and chipping a tooth and can't chew properly anymore, would you be alright with it if I sued you personally for damages?

How about if you caught me with your TV in my hands, and you tackled me, and we fell down your stairs, and the same result, I broke my jaw, chipped my tooth, and now I couldn't enjoy my Timmy's breakfast sandwiches anymore, would you appreciate the fact that I am now suing you for as much money as I possibly can get?

Are you two from BC by chance?

So, shoplifting some razor blades - what is that worth, 3 punches and 2 boots to the head? Would a shive be OK? What is your scale?

It isn't the manager or the security guard's job or right to decide the punishment.

I personally don't think the shoplifter should benefit, but I also don't think if you catch a criminal you have a free pass to take out your frustrations on him.

The penalty was warranted, but I think the money should go to charity, not the shoplifter.

[Burninator]

Just because you are breaking the law doesn't mean that personal rights go out the window. There is always a line, no matter the crime. You don't have the write to beat someone up for stealing something out of a store. You don't have the right to shoot someone in the face for stealing your car. Just because they are breaking the law doesn't mean "the law" doesn't apply to you.

[Kev]

The penalty was warranted, but I think the money should go to charity, not the shoplifter.

That is basically what I was saying, I don't agree that the shoplifter should have the right to receive damages. I guess I should make sure to elaborate more next time. If the security guards were out of the realm of their rights to detain them, then yes they maybe should be disciplined as well.

Now I want you guys to answer my questions:

If I break into your house looking to steal something, and in the process, end up falling through the window and breaking my jaw and chipping a tooth and can't chew properly anymore, would you be alright with it if I sued you personally for damages?

How about if you caught me with your TV in my hands, and you tackled me, and we fell down your stairs, and the same result, I broke my jaw, chipped my tooth, and now I couldn't enjoy my Timmy's breakfast sandwiches anymore, would you appreciate the fact that I am now suing you for as much money as I possibly can get?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Kev

Now I want you guys to answer my questions:

If I break into your house looking to steal something, and in the process, end up falling through the window and breaking my jaw and chipping a tooth and can't chew properly anymore, would you be alright with it if I sued you personally for damages?

How about if you caught me with your TV in my hands, and you tackled me, and we fell down your stairs, and the same result, I broke my jaw, chipped my tooth, and now I couldn't enjoy my Timmy's breakfast sandwiches anymore, would you appreciate the fact that I am now suing you for as much money as I possibly can get?

This is irrelevant.

Breaking into a home is completely different from getting beat up by a security guard and would be treated as such by the justice system.