Jim Rome on NHL

[Titan]

He is talking right now about the Simon thing and basically smashing the NHL by saying it is fading fast, is not relevant and you can't find it on tv. It is not a major sport in the US.

Then he says he actually likes the sport but simply can't find it.

Like or hate Jim Rome he has nailed the problems the NHL has in the US. No real network coverage = irrlevance. The only time it is talked about is when someone lives up to the perceived american stereotype of canadian goons in short pants.

Its a good thing the NHLPA is more concerned about snooping on emails and Bettmen is doing... what exactly to get a network deal?

By the way one game on a Saturday afternoon on NBC starting after Christmas does not count.

Americans watch cars going around in a circle for two hours. You don't think they would get into hockey if it was marketed to them properly?

(Sorry about the rant. The Pittsburg thing and Nashville not being able to fill the seats for THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE has got me worried.)

[Mr.Coffee]

What's that? The majority of Americans don't care about hockey?

Weird. News to me.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Titan

Americans watch cars going around in a circle for two hours. You don't think they would get into hockey if it was marketed to them properly?

The NHL has too many, me first type of people. The teams only care about what is good for them today. Not what is best for them in the long term. Same with the league. The NHL should maybe pay attention to what NASCAR and the NFL are doing.

NASCAR is a recent success. It wasn't that long ago that it was a regional sport in the deep south. Now it is absolutly huge. How? Marketing, and tv.

The NFL was far behind MLB in the 1960's. Now they are number 1. Why? Because of marketing and tv. Also the NFL knows that what is best for league is best for everyone. You can't just have the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys need a league to play in.

Untill the 30 individual teams in the NHL, start to try and think as one. Grow the league as a whole in NA, especially south of the 49th. They will never get anywhere.

[Hakan]

Why do Canadians consistently agonize about how no one in the States likes hockey?

The game seems pretty fine to me from a Canadian fan perspective. I can watch almost every game with Centre Ice and I get constant news from major news agencies about the league.

So who cares about the States?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Hakan

So who cares about the States?

Perfectly stated. You should run for Prime Minister.

[worth]

Jim Rome had been saying this ever since the NHL stopped being shown by ESPN.

[Bobblehead]

The only thing that worries me are the attempts to "fix" the issues.

Hockey is a great game. We need to stop catering to the fringe markets. We can market to them, but stop trying to change the game to adapt to fickle American (or Canadian) audiences.

Hockey is easier to understand and has much more flow than football. Its rules are easier than the Infield Fly Rule; and other than the playoffs the games are all less than 3 hours (unlike some of the 4 hour 14 inning marathons that occur every year).

And the occasional "black eye" the NHL gets from incidents like Simon's slash is matched by the antics of players in the NFL (also known as the National Felons League) or the bench clearing brawls in MLB. Sure the NHL needs to discipline Simon, but there is no reason the NHL should view themselves as less than other leagues because of these incidents - they happen in all the leagues.

The NHL game has its imperfections, but these can be overcome with a little polish, not sledgehammers.

The NHL needs to ditch Versus and get on a system to which the majority of fans has access (ESPN - even if it is for free). Owners should be mandated to maintaining local interest, not just profits (I'm looking at you "Dollar" Bill Wirtz - for shame).
The NHL needs to do their marquee events (like the All-Star Game) and look like a professional production instead of an off-off-off-broadway production. Cables stretched across the ice and timing not working - bush league.
They need better officiating, either by getting better officials or offering better training and feedback.
The "New NHL" was supposed to be fan friendly. Instead we he "undisclosed upper/lower body injuries", GMs criticized for sharing the most innocuous of goings on from before the trade deadlines and fans being harassed by staff for declaring their displeasure on team moves.

The game is a great game. Some markets may not be worth saving - let them move or contract. Stop chasing respectability in non-traditional markets.

The NHL IS respectable. If the NHL decides to cater to fans instead of catering to new franchise money, better arena deals and corporate sponsorship then the the NHL can get more fans. The fans are not a result of more corporate money and nicer arenas. Nicer arenas and more corporate money is a result of more fans.

When the NHL has leadership that can recognize these things the NHL will once again be recognized as a major sport. (/rant)

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Perfectly stated. You should run for Prime Minister.

Great idea.

We only trade just about everything with them.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Hakan

So who cares about the States?

I'm guessing every ownership group and player in the NHL, including the Canadian entries.

Neglecting a market of 275 million people is sheer business stupidity. The reason NHL tickets are so expensive is because a huge percentage of income comes from gate revenue, rather than TV money. The NHL is the only "major league" that is this reliant on fan support. Even though the seats aren't great, one can go see European Soccer and Major League Baseball for well under $15 CDN. The NFL would be like that too if demand wasn't so overwhelming.

Everyone would be a lot better off with a major American TV contract. Hell... even FIFA is bending over backwards for North America. Wanting into the US in a big way is the biggest reason why Canada might actually get the World Cup in 2018.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Azure

Great idea.

We only trade just about everything with them.

hahaha... yeah.. I was pretty serious too. Wow you spun that pretty good. Let's see.

Discussion about how Americans don't care about hockey = Discussion about how we should sever all ties with them. I know there hasn't been much political talk lately on here, but this is reaching dont you think?

[burn_baby_burn]

The game is fine. That isn't what needs to changed. Its how it is marketed for one. On the other, they need to help and grow grass roots hockey in area's like Nashville or Pheonix. We hear that minor hockey has taken off in Dallas since the Stars won the cup. The only reason that hockey is so popular in Canada. Is becasue we grow up playing it and watching it and we understand it. If the NHL wants to fly in the states. It needs to start at the grass roots level and get the kids interested in playing. If may take a decade or two. But it will be well worth the return.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I'm guessing every ownership group and player in the NHL, including the Canadian entries.

Neglecting a market of 275 million people is sheer business stupidity. The reason NHL tickets are so expensive is because a huge percentage of income comes from gate revenue, rather than TV money. The NHL is the only "major league" that is this reliant on fan support. Even though the seats aren't great, one can go see European Soccer and Major League Baseball for well under $15 CDN. The NFL would be like that too if demand wasn't so overwhelming.

Everyone would be a lot better off with a major American TV contract.

And yet the majority of the American public doesn't agree, because they don't want to watch hockey.

Look bottom line, is that every week somebody posts a thread about how the US doesn't give a crap. Everybody knows about it, and it really isn't news. Even if a large network picks up hockey, the NHL will get oodles of money and that's great- but general perceptions won't change.

You know that because of major networks hosting the NHL in the past and relative interest in the sport. The NHL is always going to be below baseball, football, nascar and basketball. Network or not. The interest will always be this way in my opinion.

[return to the red]

I think Bobble said it best, The NHL can't continue to expand into markets where there just isn't any market for NHL hockey. Instead of making all these changes to make the game more appealing to non-traditional markets the NHL should be taking a step back and realizing that in the search for the almighty dollar the NHL may be turning loyal fans away from the game.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

And yet the majority of the American public doesn't agree, because they don't want to watch hockey.

Look bottom line, is that every week somebody posts a thread about how the US doesn't give a crap. Everybody knows about it, and it really isn't news. Even if a large network picks up hockey, the NHL will get oodles of money and that's great- but general perceptions won't change.

You know that because of major networks hosting the NHL in the past and relative interest in the sport. The NHL is always going to be below baseball, football, nascar and basketball. Network or not. The interest will always be this way in my opinion.

The question then is why? Why is hockey not popular? Is it a lack of flashy lights and shiny things? Doubtful, seeing as Baseball and Golf (most more popular) are very bare bones comparatively. Is it the abundance of Canadian franchises? again, doubtful.

The problem is that hockey is a regional niche sport. Like soccer is there (and here). However, Soccer at its top level gets huge ratings in both Canada and the US... Maybe hockey needs a grand spectacle? I dunno... but its not like Americans don't like hockey. Its Americans outside of the popular niches. A successful NY franchise would help too.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Everyone would be a lot better off with a major American TV contract.

True, and I'd be better off winning the lottery. I'd say the odds of either happening anytime soon are even. The thing is, I don't alter my lifestyle and plan ahead for the winning ticket like the NHL does.

What has ever suggested that the average American sports fan will come around to hockey? Why do people still think this is going to happen? The league is like a hundred years old. They don't want to watch it. A nationally televised playoff game would be beat in the ratings by an old episode of Party of 5. What network in their right mind would want to pay for something like that?

I'm not saying give up on getting new fans, but they aren't everything. Far as I can tell they should be more concerned about keeping the old ones at this point.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

The question then is why? Why is hockey not popular? Is it a lack of flashy lights and shiny things? Doubtful, seeing as Baseball and Golf (most more popular) are very bare bones comparatively. Is it the abundance of Canadian franchises? again, doubtful.

The problem is that hockey is a regional niche sport. Like soccer is there (and here). However, Soccer at its top level gets huge ratings in both Canada and the US... Maybe hockey needs a grand spectacle? I dunno... but its not like Americans don't like hockey. Its Americans outside of the popular niches. A successful NY franchise would help too.

I agree a successful NY or LA franchise would turn hockey into a popular sport for about the length of time those teams are good.

The reason hockey isn't as popular is because sport has to do with heritage. Canadians grow up with hockey and its engrained in our culture, its something we take pride in being very good at. It's a part of our nationality, but it isn't with Americans. Americans grow up watching baseball and football and that's why those sports are important to them, remember the "good ol American pasttime"?

Soccer is popular because Americans have tons of immigrants from European backgrounds. Since soccer is basically the world's most popular sport, especially for Europeans it comes as no surprise to me that the States is able to get high ratings. Plus, climate for soccer isn't exactly an issue whereas in hockey it is. These reasons all contribute to the idea that hockey will remain stationary in its popularity.

[Sparks]

Posted by Hakan:
Why do Canadians consistently agonize about how no one in the States likes hockey?...

Absolutely! I've been waiting for someone to say that. I don't get it either.

If anything, I hope it becomes even less popular, so that only the true hockey markets remain. Wouldn't it be great if the league consisted of only 20 teams? More talent, more passionate fans, etc. That'll never happen, but I wouldn't complain if it did!

But anyways, whoopty-do. We're always going to love the game up here in the Great White North, so there's nothing to worry about.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Sparks

Absolutely! I've been waiting for someone to say that. I don't get it either.

If anything, I hope it becomes even less popular, so that only the true hockey markets remain. Wouldn't it be great if the league consisted of only 20 teams? More talent, more passionate fans, etc. That'll never happen, but I wouldn't complain if it did!

But anyways, whoopty-do. We're always going to love the game up here in the Great White North, so there's nothing to worry about.

I think the NHL as a whole should stop trying to whore itself out for popularity. I say stand true to the core traditions of hockey, and the US can either take it or leave it. I do think effort should always be taken to try and reach out, since there is a lucrative benefit in that

Personally though, I think the league would be best off with 24 teams in the best markets. However, I think that anyone who thinks that would mean a return to Winnipeg or Quebec City needs to wake up from that dream. Canada is essentially capped at 6 cities capable of supporting a team, or teams... and even another GTA team runs a risk of being ignored (only selling out Leaf and maybe Hab games) and then falling off the map shortly thereafter.

Look at Edmonton (and this is not meant to be offensive to Oiler fans, they do support that team well)... they can barely afford to have an NHL franchise, their ownership doesn't have the pockets to stomach any financial loss, and seem to be resigned to being a development team with an occasional ability to make a strong run, since every player who required 5m or more seems to have a short stay or are traded beforehand. Its the same problem the Flames had in the past, but Calgary is a slightly larger, well-off and much more corporate based market. If Edmonton can barely do it... no other Canadian market can even consider it, and that's in a 30 team league with several financial sieves and revenue sharing.

[FireFly]

Do people honestly think that if the NHL shrunk due to lack of popularity, Calgary could still afford to compete? Think about it. If you remove the bottom 10 teams, that's roughly the lowest 250 players off the rungs. The cap goes down and salaries go down with it? Hmmmm, me thinks that it'll be a tough sell and the average salary would likely go up, pricing the NHL right out of even more markets. Calgary and Edmonton being two of them.

[Titan]

I like what Bobble had to say. I am not in favour of changing the game to attract americans. (For the record I think the games the last two years have been incredibly more enjoyable than in the trap era) They do need to clarify a hook and a hold but otherwise I think the product is exciting and strong in most markets.

However, the marketing is the problem. The average person in the states has virtually no chance of stumbling across a televised game. If you want to find it it is hard. They need to be on ESPN and should give them the content if necessary to get 2-3 games a week on the network. If they carry it they will cover it. Also, if ESPN is paying attention the other media will also.

Who is the director of marketing for NASCAR? Hire him/her. Or their assistant.

Don't change the game market it.

Why care? The CFL.

If we want a tiny "minor league" team with Cdn teams and a few buffalos then we will be on par with the CFL. I think we can give the majors a run. Americans love basketball and the rules, philosphically, are very similar to hockey and hockey is a much faster game.