Neocons looking to BUY opinions to support their view...

[Lanny_MacDonald]

This was too funny for words.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070202...y_070202142458

The moral bankruptcy of the neo-conservative movement is complete.

[Looger]

if people really want to see why, they should look into the university of chicago and its political studies, or leo strauss.

the people and doctrines that the neo-cons praise, no one in the mainstream media seem to try to get to the bottom of...

ideas like lying to the public, constant warfare, are pretty standard.

[Looger]

"Right now, the whole debate is polarized," Green was quoted as saying by the newspaper.

huh. maybe something of note will come out of this.

or maybe we're looking at a stage show.

the 'evil neo-cons' versus the 'sane globalists'.

[troutman]

The American Enterprise Institute (AEI), which receives funding from oil giant ExxonMobil

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by troutman

The American Enterprise Institute (AEI), which receives funding from oil giant ExxonMobil

Who just posted the largest profit of any company anywhere last year... something like 40 billion. They can buy a LOT of scientists w/ that kind of cash.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Who just posted the largest profit of any company anywhere last year... something like 40 billion. They can buy a LOT of scientists w/ that kind of cash.

Do you not think that the pact of steele (Brussels, Berlin, Paris) also does not pay scientists?

I agree, openly advertising for something like that is quite dispicable but its done on both sides of the ledger.

If it produces more winters like we had this year, bring on Global Warming, screw people who live on coast lines and in the south - the North is back baby.

Also, Exxon posted the largest profit of a PUBLICALLY traded company, there are at least 10 state owned oil/gas monopolies who would have posted higher profits last year. Also, note to the NeoLibs out there, pumping gas out of the ground doesnt burn oil (in most cases) so Exxon is not the cause, they might be the crack dealer to the worlds addiction, but they are not the producer.

MYK

[fanforever1986]

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Do you not think that the pact of steele (Brussels, Berlin, Paris) also does not pay scientists?

Probably... though do they explicitly pay them to only find the results they're looking for? Maybe they do... but the article in this thread points pretty squarely at one side trying to 'buy science'... is there an equivalent one concerning the 'pact of steele'?

I agree, openly advertising for something like that is quite dispicable but its done on both sides of the ledger.

As is usually the case... though again, I haven't seen an article yet that claims the French/German governments are buying bleak climate reports exclusively and stifling research that goes against human-caused climate change.

If it produces more winters like we had this year, bring on Global Warming, screw people who live on coast lines and in the south - the North is back baby.

...

Also, Exxon posted the largest profit of a PUBLICALLY traded company, there are at least 10 state owned oil/gas monopolies who would have posted higher profits last year. .

Er... so? They're still one of the hugest companies in the world... just because they're not THE hugest seems to be of little consequence considering the subject matter of the thread. $40 billion profit in one year is beyond huge.

Also, note to the NeoLibs out there, pumping gas out of the ground doesnt burn oil (in most cases) so Exxon is not the cause, they might be the crack dealer to the worlds addiction, but they are not the producer

Exxon stands to lose a good chunk of change if demand on oil supplies eases... what they want is unfettered demand for the product they sell. If the public starts to really make strides in becoming more efficient, the price of oil may go down, reducing Exxon's record-breaking profit margins.

[Agamemnon]

And since no one is posting in the Gore thread any more, I'll move my post there to this thread.

Surprised no one brought this up in this thread...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/02/sc...rtner=homepage

Seems like another major climate report has come out;

The report released here represented the fourth assessment since 1990 by the group, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change of the United Nations, of the causes and consequences of climate change. But for the first time the group asserted with near certainty — more than 90 percent confidence — that carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases from human activities were the main drivers of warming since 1950.

Obviously another batch of complete morons who can't think for themselves, and have been duped by the Gores/Suzukians of the world. Another blow struck by the clime-apologists!

[badnarik]

90%, does that mean 1 out of 10 of them doesnt believe it?

[blankall]

Trying to buy science? I am no supporter of the neocon movement, but every scientific study has to get its funding from somewhere. Offereing rewards for info of any kind is totally not uncommon either. I used to work in a bio research lab. We had a board of problems that had outstanding rewards for them.

Even if you pay someone 10k you have to realize that the scientific community is not stupid. If you cannot back up your claim with good evidence it will not be considered to be valid.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by blankall

Trying to buy science? I am no supporter of the neocon movement, but every scientific study has to get its funding from somewhere. Offereing rewards for info of any kind is totally not uncommon either. I used to work in a bio research lab. We had a board of problems that had outstanding rewards for them.

Even if you pay someone 10k you have to realize that the scientific community is not stupid. If you cannot back up your claim with good evidence it will not be considered to be valid.

You don't think there's something odd about offering up money for specific conclusions, rather than actual neutral experimentation? Are the governments who sponsor climate reports (like the United States) funding these reports with the explicit assumption that they will prove human-caused global warming? Maybe thats the case... but as I mentioned above, no one's pointed it out here... yet. The article that starts the thread off doesn't really seem like 'just another source of scientific funding'.

[Flame Of Liberty]

As far as I am concerned, private companies can send money to anyone they want.

On the other hand, government using my taxpayer money to fund "pro climate-change" fearmongering reports (among other things) is what worries me.

These "scientific studies" that the world is coming to an end is nothing new from the the radical enviro-left (Paul Ehlrich ín the 1968, and others).

[Agamemnon]

So, basically any government involvement at all in studying the earth's climate changes is illegitimate, and private corporations sponsoring these studies are really who we should be trusting to get it right... yes?

[Flame Of Liberty]

If you dont trust private companies to get it right, support non-for-profit organizations involved in studying climate changes.

Studies themselves arent the problem, the regulation imposed afterwards is.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So, basically any government involvement at all in studying the earth's climate changes is illegitimate, and private corporations sponsoring these studies are really who we should be trusting to get it right... yes?

Or that all governments in countries have always supported the belief that climate change is due to humans, man-made, etc....?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So, basically any government involvement at all in studying the earth's climate changes is illegitimate, and private corporations sponsoring these studies are really who we should be trusting to get it right... yes?

blind support of any position without investigating it and researching it yourself isn't too brilliant.

those with money and power have agendas that aren't the same as us poor little peons. that includes corporate, local government, and global government.

be aware of that, and quit believing or disbelieving data based on where it comes from, start analyzing the data itself.

something tells me that most of what the supercorporate evil will be good data but with a preconceived conclusion. same as the UN's studies. same as the government of canada's studies.

this for the most part is a carefully managed stage show, and no, it doesn't mean the scientists are 'in on it' or 'duped' - it means that us independent thinkers should ask questions and demand answers, follow the money, know why source A or person B may be trying to lead us somewhere, and try to piece together the entire story from both 'sides' as well as the lion's share of data that they both ignore.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

As far as I am concerned, private companies can send money to anyone they want.

On the other hand, government using my taxpayer money to fund "pro climate-change" fearmongering reports (among other things) is what worries me.

These "scientific studies" that the world is coming to an end is nothing new from the the radical enviro-left (Paul Ehlrich ín the 1968, and others).

HA HA! Good one!


Wait..... you're NOT kidding?

I guess I'd better respond, in that case.

Firstly, scientific research money comes from a lot of sources. Government agencies, operated independently, are one of those sources, but they are generally careful NOT to influence the outcome of scientific research. Other sources of money include charitable organizations, nonprofit associations, endowed private foundations, private and public post-secondary institutions, usually through endowed awards of some kind, the list goes on. To sum up: don't worry. YOUR tax dollars are not really being used to support science. Some scientists are funded through government dollars, but the cost to you is far less than what your government spends on its own bureaucracy.

Secondly, why would governments have a vested interest in some super-secret leftist apocalyptic agenda to fool tree-huggers into thinking the world is ending? Governments are far more interested in economic prosperity and attracting business--which is why the Bush administration has ordered climate experts NOT to tell the media what they know about climate change. If anything, some governments have an interest in suppressing the mounting evidence for anthropogenic global warming. Thank god there are a few sane people out there who are willing to look the truth in the face.

Thirdly--which "scientific studies" are claiming the world is coming to an end? No-one purports to understand the full scope of climate change. But people are saying that it's time to pull your head out of the sand and recognize that something will need to be done very soon about this problem. Pretending that science is akin to witchcraft won't help the problem.