Venezuela's Chavez sworn in again, vows 'socialism or death'

[RedHot25]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/0...n.html?ref=rss

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was sworn in for another six years on Wednesday, vowing to press ahead with a sweeping socialist agenda.

...

Chavez, who called Jesus Christ "the greatest socialist in history," said "Venezuelan socialism … is the only path to the redemption of our peoples, the salvation of our fatherland."
Lawmakers chanted "Viva socialism" during the ceremony, which came two days after Chavez announced plans to nationalize Venezuela's largest telecommunications company, electrical companies and four lucrative oil projects run by foreign companies Exxon Mobil, Chevron and ConocoPhillips.
The president — who has called ailing Castro his mentor and U.S. President George W. Bush "the devil" — also called for a constitutional amendment to strip the autonomy of the Central Bank.

[Red Mile Style]

Woot woot!

I love Chavez, actually, all Venezuelians in general.

I just read this interesting article about how Venezuelian oil companies are giving oil to low-income American families in the US to heat their homes for free - because American big oil won't.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...157172,00.html

Yay! Socialism!

[Looger]

venezuela will soon become an al-quaeda haven i suspect...

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Looger

venezuela will soon become an al-quaeda haven i suspect...

Well, as usual, your suspicions are false.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Well, as usual, your suspicions are false.

I think he was linking US opposition to Socialism/Chavez and US opposition towards terror... tongue in cheek comment that the US will 'find terrorists' in Venezuela as an excuse to crack down on the country.

I don't think Looger is genuinely suggesting that Al Qaeda is setting up bases in Venezuela.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Woot woot!

I love Chavez, actually, all Venezuelians in general.

I just read this interesting article about how Venezuelian oil companies are giving oil to low-income American families in the US to heat their homes for free - because American big oil won't.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...157172,00.html

Yay! Socialism!

Uh huh... I'm not trying to be sarcastic or mean spirited at all when I ask you this, I'm honestly wondering.. have you ever taken economics when you were at U of C?

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I think he was linking US opposition to Socialism/Chavez and US opposition towards terror... tongue in cheek comment that the US will 'find terrorists' in Venezuela as an excuse to crack down on the country.

I don't think Looger is genuinely suggesting that Al Qaeda is setting up bases in Venezuela.

Ah! I see, and I tend to agree.

Yeah, I'm not trippin, just rolling with the punches.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Uh huh... I'm not trying to be sarcastic or mean spirited at all when I ask you this, I'm honestly wondering.. have you ever taken economics when you were at U of C?

Yep, intro to micro and macro and intermediate micro and macro.

Economics, just like any social science, can be biased towards a political leaning. For example, my micro econ prof actually said that there are no positive aspects to taxation, which obviously is completely oblivious to any positive social benefits that occur due to social programs funded by taxes. Let alone roads, for transport of goods, healthcare which insures a healthy work-force. I found UofC econ really slanted towards (surprise, surprise) a hard right-wing approach.

I think your UofC econ classes probably explain your take on things. If you would'v taken econ at a different school, you might see things differently.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I think he was linking US opposition to Socialism/Chavez and US opposition towards terror... tongue in cheek comment that the US will 'find terrorists' in Venezuela as an excuse to crack down on the country.

I don't think Looger is genuinely suggesting that Al Qaeda is setting up bases in Venezuela.

sorta...

the united states has got to be by any metering stick a country that has moved more socialistic in the last 20 years.

socialism, capitalism, etc. is all just words used for convenience and to rally support, i mean american 'conservatives' are spending themselves silly and instituting all kinds of things that traditional paleo-conservatives are against, like pat buchanan, congressman ron paul (tx), guys closer to the old goldwater republicans and farther from the rockefeller republicans on issues like the open border and amnesty policy.

by most peoples' definition i'd say chavez IS moving venezuela closer to what we'd call socialism but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the conflict at hand.

but otherwise you're right, i was getting at chavez kicking out western oil and banking interests being another salvo at the powers that he wants out of his country.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Yep, intro to micro and macro and intermediate micro and macro.

Economics, just like any social science, can be biased towards a political leaning. For example, my micro econ prof actually said that there are no positive aspects to taxation, which obviously is completely oblivious to any positive social benefits that occur due to social programs funded by taxes. Let alone roads, for transport of goods, healthcare which insures a healthy work-force. I found UofC econ really slanted towards (surprise, surprise) a hard right-wing approach.

I think your UofC econ classes probably explain your take on things. If you would'v taken econ at a different school, you might see things differently.

I'm more of a balance guy. I think that it ends up being the best way to properly balance private and public incentives. That's one reason why I like Canada. While I agree with you about the taxation, do you not agree that a completely socialist nation indisputably leads to inefficiencies both at a national and personal level?

[mykalberta]

Congratulations to the democratically elected leader of Venezuala. Now who cares about Venezuala (except for the femeninas)? I will be in Chile at the end of March, I will wave to him while we fly over his country.

MYK

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Congratulations to the democratically elected leader of Venezuala. Now who cares about Venezuala (except for the femeninas)? I will be in Chile at the end of March, I will wave to him while we fly over his country.

MYK

My, how very American of you.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Congratulations to the democratically elected leader of Venezuala. Now who cares about Venezuala (except for the femeninas)? I will be in Chile at the end of March, I will wave to him while we fly over his country.

MYK

People interested in international politics and the economics of the worldwide oil industry. Venezeula has a _lot_ of oil.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I'm more of a balance guy. I think that it ends up being the best way to properly balance private and public incentives. That's one reason why I like Canada. While I agree with you about the taxation, do you not agree that a completely socialist nation indisputably leads to inefficiencies both at a national and personal level?

Fair enough, I think there are always grey areas so I respect your balance.

The thing is, people always will be quick to say that things like socialism work on paper, but not in reality, and I am always quick to say: "How do you know that?" There has never been one completely socialist state to prove that point. There have been a number of political leaders claiming to be, but that was/is a ploy to be a repressive dictator.

I think with essential services, it is in the best interest of the people to have some sort of regulation to ensure a certain quality of life. I also do not see a problem with instead of profits going towards big corporations, going to the state to ensure low cost for essential services and providing social programs for it's citizens.

I hear the "What about all the jobs corporations create?" I don't see how government run companies would lose jobs. It's not like the same jobs don't exist when the government runs the corps.

I have a meeting I must go to... to be continued.

[Vulcan]

So far he seems to have his peoples interests at heart but I don't see why he has to make a point of tweaking the US's nose. It's good timing though, with the Americans resources tied up in Iraq.

[Cowperson]

He appeals to a group, the downtrodden, who truly need help and some redistribution of wealth in that country. His rise via the vote is quite understandable and he does support a certain constituency that needs the help.

However, he's got a big corruption problem himself.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13989898/site/newsweek/

And he's rapidly changing constitutional issues and individual rights to suit his own power . . . if I'm not mistaken, as an example, opposition groups n the last election were forbidden from appearing on television for longer than a few minutes - literally - while Chavez was on the air for hours at a time. He's also going to introduce legislation to have the president serve unlimited number of terms. The persistent scare-mongering of an imminent American invasion is pretty comical. Its not hard to see where all this is going for Castro, er, Chavez:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...AA5918C9BC.htm

Nationalization will probably dry up investment capital. Venezualian stock markets are plunging. An unstable business climate where investors can't rely on normal institutions nearly always drives capital to more palatable places in the world and that, in the end, leads to lower living standards. Money is like a river, usually flowing the easiest course. :

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...gpw&refer=news

A fair look:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_...pposition.html

He's had an opportunity to do great things but I can see why Chomsky refused to acknowledge him waving his book at the UN . . . probably worried about having his name attached to another Communist China or Pol Pot disaster.

Cowperson

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So far he seems to have his peoples interests at heart but I don't see why he has to make a point of tweaking the US's nose. It's good timing though, with the Americans resources tied up in Iraq.

given that there's been as many as 20,000 american nationals as 'advisors' in colombia (years ago now), and that the private military contractors are getting kicked out of iraq by US generals, there may be a huge private army with nothing to do...

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

He appeals to a group, the downtrodden, who truly need help and some redistribution of wealth in that country. His rise via the vote is quite understandable and he does support a certain constituency that needs the help.

However, he's got a big corruption problem himself.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13989898/site/newsweek/

And he's rapidly changing constitutional issues and individual rights to suit his own power . . . if I'm not mistaken, as an example, opposition groups n the last election were forbidden from appearing on television for longer than a few minutes - literally - while Chavez was on the air for hours at a time. He's also going to introduce legislation to have the president serve unlimited number of terms. The persistent scare-mongering of an imminent American invasion is pretty comical. Its not hard to see where all this is going for Castro, er, Chavez:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...AA5918C9BC.htm

I don't see how it's comical at all, considering the most overwhelming examples of american foreign intervention are in latin america, especially over the last 30 years.

You don't think surviving one coup attempt already might make you a bit worrisome?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't see how it's comical at all, considering the most overwhelming examples of american foreign intervention are in latin america, especially over the last 30 years.
?

Who's the scaremonger now?

I'll reference a previous debate and save some time:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ight=Venezuela

You don't think surviving one coup attempt already might make you a bit worrisome?

Chavez would probably know since he actively tried to overthrow the government himself once.

Cowperson

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Who's the scaremonger now?

I'll reference a previous debate and save some time:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ight=Venezuela

You don't think surviving one coup attempt already might make you a bit worrisome?

Chavez would probably know since he actively tried to overthrow the government himself once.

Cowperson

I don't understand the relevance to what I posted.

I'm not defending chavez, I just think it's silly to say his fears of foreign intervention are 'comical'.

Do coup's not happen in South America?