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Old 12-01-2006, 11:02 AM   #1
mykalberta
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Default Liberal Leadership - 2006

Peculiar that there isnt a thread about this yet - I know this site is mostly frequented by Albertans but politics on the Left is important and their happens to be a few candidates (2) that I might actually vote for.

www.liberal.ca

*EDIT START*

Almost forgot, if you want blogger info, the best leftist blogger site is:

http://www.stageleft.info/

*EDIT END*

I figured I would start by putting the list of Candidates - the list is from the Liberal website – wasn’t chosen in any particular order of my own:

(1) Michael Ignatieff
http://www.michaelignatieff.ca

(2) Bob Rae
http://www.bobrae.ca

(3) Joe Volpe
http://www.JoeVolpe.ca

(4) Gerard Kennedy
http://www.gerardkennedy.ca

(5) Stephane Dion
http://www.stephanedion.ca

(6) Martha Hall Findlay
http://www.marthahallfindlay.ca

(7) Scott Brison
www.scottbrison.ca

(8) Ken Dryden
www.kendryden.ca

Here is my own take on each of them just from what I have seen/heard and the final standings of how I think it.

1 Bob Rae
He is absolutely everything I hate about Politics, has no opinions and is greasy, greasy like selling Rub n Tugs out of a trailer in Sunnyvail.

2 Gerard Kennedy
At first glance I see him as a young Bob Rae but when you put his life into context – started the Centre of the Universe and Edmunchucks Food Bank – while he is a life long liberal, depending on how he acts, I could see myself voting for him.

3 Michael Ignatieff
He seems like the most stand up candidate for the Fed Libs I have ever seen – I have always wondered why he isn’t a Conservative. He has views, doesn’t seem like a slimeball, doesn’t skirt tough issues – has “Canadian media” controversial viewpoints but in my book he is easily the best candidate – given him v Harper – I would have a tough time voting for Harper so long as Ignatieff’s views don’t get hammered by the classic liberal BS scheme

4 Stephane Dion
Seems very passionate but is a “Cretiean Liberal”. I see 4 more years of Cretieanism if he was in power.

5 Scott Brison
The candidate I hate the most – I don’t care what party you are in – if you cross the floor you are a dirt bag – plain and simple. Everytime he talks I want to throw something at my TV.

6 Joe Volpe
I don’t know a lot about this guy, just on watching some videos on CPAC/CBC/Duffy Live he seems like the classic Bob Rae type politician – no real conviction.

7 Marth Hall Findlay
Again, know really nothing about her – she seems alright I guess.

8 Ken Dryden
What a slimbag – and he used to work with the Leafs – nuff said. Imagine what men like Espo thought about Dryden during the Canada Cup – gutless wuss was probably uttered more than once.

Here is my list of the top 5 on how they would compare via Harper in the next election:

1 Michael Ignatieff
Easily the most difficult opponent for Harper – has opinions – could challenge in Quebec – could take a few ridings in Alberta – 1 or 2 in Edmonton and likely 1 in Calgary. His problem is he isn’t seasoned enough- the Liberals wouldn’t have their easiest weapon available (Bush lover, Afghanistan, etc).

2 Gerard Kennedy
Because he is new on the scene he doesn’t have the old Liberal baggage – he will almost for sure get votes in Edmonton because of the foodbank thing. His lack of French will hurt him, if he wins I see an election by June at the latest so Harper can pull the same thing Cretiean did with Day. This is a tough one to call because he is so new.

3 ****** Bob Rae
I think Rae has the ability to be the easiest and toughest candidate for Harper. Easiest because he is a “Johnny come lately” Liberal, has Ontario record – like wouldn’t retake the Torries gain in Quebec. Toughest because he is the classic Leftist Teflon Big Willy style politician – doesn’t stand for a lot so its hard to pin him on something.

4 Stepahne Dion
If he were to win, I think the Liberals increase seats in QC but lose more Ontario. His old Cretiean supporter role will bite him hard in QC.

5 Martha Hall Findlay
Difficult because she is a woman, easy because she is a woman – don’t really know enough about her to say either way.

Here is my thinking on how the campaign goes – 3 scenarios:

1: Rae Wins – Rae is within 10% of Ignatieff in first vote – Volpe drops out and supports Rae, that Causes Findlay and Brison to support Rae after the second. Kennedy and Dion get together but its too late – Dion likely has too much pride to concede after the first and if he doesn’t the Kennedy doesn’t have a shot against Rae’s momentum. Ignatieff and Rae down to the wire, Kennedy’s supporters choose mostly Rae on second ballot – Rae wins in 4th or 5th ballot.

2: Ignatieff wins – Rae is 13%+ behind Ignatieff. That causes Volpe and Findlay to support Ignatieff, Brison supports after Ingatieff after second, Dion again has too much pride. Ignatieff wins on 3rd ballot.

3: Kennedy wins – Rae is 13%+ behind Ignatieff – Dion supports Kennedy after first causing Volpe to also support. After second Findlay is a backer after Kennedy increases 5% points. After 3rd Findlay suppots, After 4th Dryden and Brison support.
After 5th Rae is eliminated and his second vote goes mostly to Kennedy.

The speeches are tonight starting at 2:30pm. My PVR is set to record – I think tonight will tell the tail for Ingatieff – he needs to win early as in first or second ballot, if not Rae likely snakes in.

Rae’s speech will also be interesting to see if he gives an explanation for his “Johnny come Lately” opportunism.

I tend to thing people will see through Kennedy’s stance on the “nation” vote for what I see it as – just political posturing for the Leadership campaign to show a decisive difference between him and the others. Had he come out the day Harper announced it – I might give him the benefit if the doubt.

Anyways – please add anything of value – its Canadian politics and it does matter even if you would never ever vote liberal – there is something we all don’t want, and that is Canada joining the Belgium-Germany-France “Pact of Steel” BS artists.

Cheers

MYK

Last edited by mykalberta; 12-01-2006 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:04 PM   #2
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Good analysis, and I agree with you on most points. However, I think Ignatieff has one big weakness, and that's a potential perceived lack of Canadian patriotism... he's spent a lot of time living in the US and has referred to that as his home country. I think that's going to be a significant knock against him in a federal election campaign--is he truly Canadian at heart, or simply an opportunist. But as far as views and charisma, he would be tough to beat. Very innovative, intellectual leader with a lot of interesting ideas.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:46 PM   #3
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Funny...out here in the centre of the universe most see Ignatieff as the slimeball. He comes across as an arogant arse. He will lose on the 2nd or 3rd ballot after winning the 1st.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykalberta View Post
Peculiar that there isnt a thread about this yet - I know this site is mostly frequented by Albertans but politics on the Left is important and their happens to be a few candidates (2) that I might actually vote for.

www.liberal.ca

*EDIT START*

Almost forgot, if you want blogger info, the best leftist blogger site is:

http://www.stageleft.info/

*EDIT END*

I figured I would start by putting the list of Candidates - the list is from the Liberal website – wasn’t chosen in any particular order of my own:

(1) Michael Ignatieff
http://www.michaelignatieff.ca

(2) Bob Rae
http://www.bobrae.ca

(3) Joe Volpe
http://www.JoeVolpe.ca

(4) Gerard Kennedy
http://www.gerardkennedy.ca

(5) Stephane Dion
http://www.stephanedion.ca

(6) Martha Hall Findlay
http://www.marthahallfindlay.ca

(7) Scott Brison
www.scottbrison.ca

(8) Ken Dryden
www.kendryden.ca

Here is my own take on each of them just from what I have seen/heard and the final standings of how I think it.

1 Bob Rae
He is absolutely everything I hate about Politics, has no opinions and is greasy, greasy like selling Rub n Tugs out of a trailer in Sunnyvail.

2 Gerard Kennedy
At first glance I see him as a young Bob Rae but when you put his life into context – started the Centre of the Universe and Edmunchucks Food Bank – while he is a life long liberal, depending on how he acts, I could see myself voting for him.

3 Michael Ignatieff
He seems like the most stand up candidate for the Fed Libs I have ever seen – I have always wondered why he isn’t a Conservative. He has views, doesn’t seem like a slimeball, doesn’t skirt tough issues – has “Canadian media” controversial viewpoints but in my book he is easily the best candidate – given him v Harper – I would have a tough time voting for Harper so long as Ignatieff’s views don’t get hammered by the classic liberal BS scheme

4 Stephane Dion
Seems very passionate but is a “Cretiean Liberal”. I see 4 more years of Cretieanism if he was in power.

5 Scott Brison
The candidate I hate the most – I don’t care what party you are in – if you cross the floor you are a dirt bag – plain and simple. Everytime he talks I want to throw something at my TV.

6 Joe Volpe
I don’t know a lot about this guy, just on watching some videos on CPAC/CBC/Duffy Live he seems like the classic Bob Rae type politician – no real conviction.

7 Marth Hall Findlay
Again, know really nothing about her – she seems alright I guess.

8 Ken Dryden
What a slimbag – and he used to work with the Leafs – nuff said. Imagine what men like Espo thought about Dryden during the Canada Cup – gutless wuss was probably uttered more than once.

Here is my list of the top 5 on how they would compare via Harper in the next election:

1 Michael Ignatieff
Easily the most difficult opponent for Harper – has opinions – could challenge in Quebec – could take a few ridings in Alberta – 1 or 2 in Edmonton and likely 1 in Calgary. His problem is he isn’t seasoned enough- the Liberals wouldn’t have their easiest weapon available (Bush lover, Afghanistan, etc).

2 Gerard Kennedy
Because he is new on the scene he doesn’t have the old Liberal baggage – he will almost for sure get votes in Edmonton because of the foodbank thing. His lack of French will hurt him, if he wins I see an election by June at the latest so Harper can pull the same thing Cretiean did with Day. This is a tough one to call because he is so new.

3 ****** Bob Rae
I think Rae has the ability to be the easiest and toughest candidate for Harper. Easiest because he is a “Johnny come lately” Liberal, has Ontario record – like wouldn’t retake the Torries gain in Quebec. Toughest because he is the classic Leftist Teflon Big Willy style politician – doesn’t stand for a lot so its hard to pin him on something.

4 Stepahne Dion
If he were to win, I think the Liberals increase seats in QC but lose more Ontario. His old Cretiean supporter role will bite him hard in QC.

5 Martha Hall Findlay
Difficult because she is a woman, easy because she is a woman – don’t really know enough about her to say either way.

Here is my thinking on how the campaign goes – 3 scenarios:

1: Rae Wins – Rae is within 10% of Ignatieff in first vote – Volpe drops out and supports Rae, that Causes Findlay and Brison to support Rae after the second. Kennedy and Dion get together but its too late – Dion likely has too much pride to concede after the first and if he doesn’t the Kennedy doesn’t have a shot against Rae’s momentum. Ignatieff and Rae down to the wire, Kennedy’s supporters choose mostly Rae on second ballot – Rae wins in 4th or 5th ballot.

2: Ignatieff wins – Rae is 13%+ behind Ignatieff. That causes Volpe and Findlay to support Ignatieff, Brison supports after Ingatieff after second, Dion again has too much pride. Ignatieff wins on 3rd ballot.

3: Kennedy wins – Rae is 13%+ behind Ignatieff – Dion supports Kennedy after first causing Volpe to also support. After second Findlay is a backer after Kennedy increases 5% points. After 3rd Findlay suppots, After 4th Dryden and Brison support.
After 5th Rae is eliminated and his second vote goes mostly to Kennedy.

The speeches are tonight starting at 2:30pm. My PVR is set to record – I think tonight will tell the tail for Ingatieff – he needs to win early as in first or second ballot, if not Rae likely snakes in.

Rae’s speech will also be interesting to see if he gives an explanation for his “Johnny come Lately” opportunism.

I tend to thing people will see through Kennedy’s stance on the “nation” vote for what I see it as – just political posturing for the Leadership campaign to show a decisive difference between him and the others. Had he come out the day Harper announced it – I might give him the benefit if the doubt.

Anyways – please add anything of value – its Canadian politics and it does matter even if you would never ever vote liberal – there is something we all don’t want, and that is Canada joining the Belgium-Germany-France “Pact of Steel” BS artists.

Cheers

MYK
I caught like five minutes of some program on the convention and they said the front runner had lost only some miniscule number of times. So based on that you would think Ignatieff is almost a shoe-in. Unless there is a convergence of a anybody but him group.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese View Post
Funny...out here in the centre of the universe most see Ignatieff as the slimeball. He comes across as an arogant arse. He will lose on the 2nd or 3rd ballot after winning the 1st.
That's how I seem him. I don't like any of the front-runners in that race.
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Old 12-02-2006, 07:56 PM   #6
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I am interested to see why people in the CoU think Ignatieff is a slimeball, unless the AntiAmericanism is worse than I thought in the CoU. He has firm ideas and seems to be fairly level headed - for me I guess its is stance on the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not because of his view but because he hasnt done what I would expect from any Liberal in that position and denounce that position.

And to say he is a bigger slimeball than Rae - wow there are serious differences between our two parts of the country. Ignatieff has positions on everything even if you dont agree with him - I agree he isnt the most grassroots but to call him a slimeball seems a smidge harsh.

Anyways its a mute point now - Dion won (wow, just barely by less than 100 votes over Kennedy after the 2nd). And Kennedy was able to bring more supporters than ever thought, almost 100% - just amazing.

Anyways, congrats to Liberals for a very entertaining bit of TV (my question is why was the vote today and not tomorrow - would it not make more sense to start Sat evening).

Congrats to Mr Stephane Dion - I will give him his credit - he was a strong fighter for Quebec in Canada against alot of odds in that province.

I have my doubts what he brings and while I dont know alot about his political record I am sure he has one which is always vulnerable in an election.

MYK
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Old 12-02-2006, 09:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykalberta View Post
Anyways its a mute point now - Dion won
Moot.

Yeah, it would have been a whole different vote and a whole different election and possibly a whole different Canada if Kennedy had 100 votes over Dion rather than the reverse. I doubt that Stephane Dion would have given his delegates to Kennedy given Gerards difficulty with French; it would be embarassing for a strong Quebec voice to throw his support behind a unilingual Anglophone from southern Ontario. At that point Dion could have just handpicked who would win the leadership, just as Kennedy did today. But it would have been less predictable. After Kennedy was bumped, I knew how the rest of it was going to play out so I did some Christmas shopping.
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Old 12-02-2006, 09:33 PM   #8
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I would think for the Conservatives this works out fine. Dion isn't going to do much in Quebec. Ontario is still a free for all and out West I'll bet there are a whole lot of people who have never heard of Dion.

I would have thought Rae would have been a tougher guy to beat but Dion is a scrapper and you have to give him respect for his defense of federalism in Quebec.
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:00 PM   #9
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It was all those signs in the Saddledome that said Dion for PM
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:13 PM   #10
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Wow...surpise result today for the Grits. Dion had a high profile as Chretien's point man in Quebec. He will carry baggage from that in Quebec and probably in Ontario too.

As a Quebec cabinet minster during the years when the Liberal party was doing it's worst to rip off Canadians through the sponsorship scandal, I just can't see him having a chance to beat Harper.

Dion is a smart guy, and hasn't been implicated himself, but the Conservative spin doctors are going to have a field day with this.
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by nieuwy-89 View Post

Dion is a smart guy, and hasn't been implicated himself, but the Conservative spin doctors are going to have a field day with this.
Sad but true.

And the guy probably had very little to do with the sponsership scandel. He was a MP from Quebec at the time...and lived through the ordeal, still keeping his job.

I think that puts him in the clear.
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