First time in Court, Need Advice...

[jzA]

Hello CP'ers!

About a month ago I got a ticket for Failing to make a left turn safely. Anyways to make a long story short I have a court date tommorow. I had some friends tell me they have went to court before and have got there demerits cut, and there fine cut in half? Is there any tips anyone could give me? I dont even know if I should plead guility or not guilty, any help would be beneficial since I am a student and have little money.

Thanks alot!

[Vulcan]

I'd go with the intention of pleading not guilty and see where it goes. You might be offered a deal but be prepared to offer your side of the situation. Should be interesting and educational.

[Dion]

Go see the prosecutor before the trial and see if you can plead it down to a fine and no demerit points. They will do this in most cases providing you have a clean drivers record.

You're better off paying the fine as opposed to having dmerits added to your license and a possible increase in your insurance premiums.

[fanforever1986]

when I went to mine the officer didn't even show up...what does that say about their promise to enforce the law without discrimination.

Good luck, don't be nervous...you're dealing with reasonable people.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

when I went to mine the officer didn't even show up...what does that say about their promise to enforce the law without discrimination.

Good luck, don't be nervous...you're dealing with reasonable people.

I fought one 2 years ago and had the same thing happen. Cop didn't show so the prosecutor had to withdraw the charges.

[shoestring]

Go see the prosecutor before the trial,he might ask for you anyway. He might make a deal or accept a deal.

If you plead not guilty then he has to arrange for the officer who gave you the ticket to be there,at a later date,could be extra court costs on top of your higher fine.
Ask him for time to pay ,if you need that.

I always wore a suit to stand out from the riffraff in court and was very humble and apoligetic. Address the judge as
Your Honor.

I only got 20 years instead of life for driving the wrong way.

[icarus]

I believe I read recently that in Alberta they are no longer going to reduce demerits anymore. I don't have a link, but I think you might be in tough.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by icarus

I believe I read recently that in Alberta they are no longer going to reduce demerits anymore. I don't have a link, but I think you might be in tough.

I read that to...but I thought it was for photo radar. Maybe it was for everything.....not sure.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

what does that say about their promise to enforce the law without discrimination.

I think it would be pretty tough to make it every time and a waste of time if a cop had to show up to court for every ticket he handed out.

[fredr123]

I am not a lawyer and this is not to be taken as legal advice.

Traffic Court is open during the day from 7:30 am to 4:00 pm. On your first appearance date, you can attend Courtroom 109 (the ticket counter) and ask to speak to a First Appearance Crown. Bring your particulars (copy of tickets and other related materials, if any). They'll take your info and ask you to take a seat. Around 9:00ish the Crown starts talking to people in the order they arrived. It can get crazy busy so get there early if you can so you'll be near the front of the line.

You'll go into a tiny room with the prosecutor. There you can plead your case. Often times, if you give them a reasonable offer they can accept it right there. Do some research beforehand to know what your fine is and the number of demerits you are looking at. It's possible the prosecutor could deal it down to a lesser offence or, in the case of speeding tickets, reduce the speed over the limit you were alleged to travel. You used to be able to ask for a registered owner ticket (which means the ticket goes against the registered owner of the vehicle rather than you the driver). That means no demerits for you but might bung up the owner's insurance (depends on the company but probably won't matter at all). Unfortunately, this is no longer possible. You can still try to make a deal for a lesser offence with a lower fine and/or lower demerits but gone are the days of getting rid of the points altogether. Make sure you ask for time to pay if you actually need time to pay.

If you can't reach a deal (and if you're polite and reasonable, there's no reason you shouldn't) then proceed to 109 again to enter a "not guilty" plea. This will set the wheels in motion for a traffic court trial. You will receive a letter in the mail telling you when and where your trial will be held unless they provide that information to you that day.

Once a trial date is set, you can't talk to the first appearance crown any more. You may be able to make a deal with the prosecutor through different means, however. Contact the traffic court to find out how. Generally, it may require you to make an appointment with the prosecutor on the 15th floor of the Rocky Mountain Plaza building. Again, reasonableness is key.

There is some useful literature out there to help you prepare for a traffic trial. Make sure you have witnesses there if they are required. The prosecutor has to prove the case but these are traffic offences, mind you. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt like on TV probably won't be the same as what you would experience. The rules of evidence and court room procedure are a little more relaxed here. Courtesy and respect are your friends.

As some others mentioned, if the police officer doesn't show up the prosecutor may withdraw the charges. May. He or she could request and adjournment though that's unlikely. Be forewarned: if you show up at trial unprepared and clearly gambling on the officer not showing up you are wasting a lot of people's time. I've heard horror stories about traffic court judges being pretty tough on people like that.

Pleading guilty and paying your ticket is always an option too. Never forget that. It'll save a lot of time and energy (and potential time off work or school) which may be worth it to you in the long run.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by shoestring

If you plead not guilty then he has to arrange for the officer who gave you the ticket to be there,at a later date,could be extra court costs on top of your higher fine.

By arranging a court date instead of mailing in your fine, you are already pleading not guilty (although most people end up pleading guilty in the end after negotiating a plea bargain--which may or may not be permissible anymore, see above). The officer should already be there. If he or she is not, then the Crown has no evidence to convict you on. Like the people above, it has happened to me once also (thankfully; I had gotten a ridiculous fine for parking in a 7-11 handicapped space while running in for a slurpee).

Cops often show though, they get time and a half I think for court appearances.

EDIT: Wise idea fred. I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be held to constitute legal advice either.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by shoestring

Address the judge as
Your Honor.

Actually, I believe in traffic court they aren't actual "judges" per se. Say "Your Worship" instead.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Actually, I believe in traffic court they aren't actual "judges" per se. Say "Your Worship" instead.

They are real judges (the justices of the peace work behind the tills). However in Canada you shouldn't really say 'Your Honour'. 'Your Worship'--could pass, I don't know--most judges don't seem to care anyway, especially when you are not a lawyer. But ideally you should just say 'Justice' or if you want to try to brown-nose say 'Mister Justice' or 'Madam Justice'.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by icarus

They are real judges (the justices of the peace work behind the tills). However in Canada you shouldn't really say 'Your Honour'. 'Your Worship'--could pass, I don't know--most judges don't seem to care anyway, especially when you are not a lawyer. But ideally you should just say 'Justice' or if you want to try to brown-nose say 'Mister Justice' or 'Madam Justice'.

Generally, Justice applies to "judges" of the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta. That's where you say "M'Lord" or "M,Lady". "Your Honour" is fine in Provincial court. "Sir" or "Madam" works too. If it's a Provincial Court Judge then that's how you address him or her. But, from one of the links I posted above:

Traffic Court is part of the Provincial Court of Alberta. It deals with offences (commonly referred to as provincial offences) under many provincial statutes such as the Highway Traffic Act and the Motor Vehicle Administration Act, as well as municipal by-laws and a few federal statutes. Traffic Court does not deal with charges under most federal statutes, including the Criminal Code.

Trials in Traffic Court are generally heard by a sitting justice of the peace (usually referred to as a Traffic Commissioner). However, Provincial Court judges hear trials at some locations in the province. A Provincial Court judge should be addressed in court as Your Honour, and a Traffic Commissioner, as Your Worship.

[BlackArcher101]

What fredr123 said regarding the process is correct.

However, removing all demerits or changing a ticket to a registered owner type is no more. Now all they can do is remove some of the demerits, most likely by changing the ticket to one of a lower offence. They cannot remove them completely.

A registered owner ticket also does not affect insurance, it's like a parking ticket.

For the news story about the change, see: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/st...ic-ticket.html

[shoestring]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Actually, I believe in traffic court they aren't actual "judges" per se. Say "Your Worship" instead.

Oh oh no wonder I got 20 in the state pen!

Just follow what ever the scary folks at the front are using.
Or the guy with the gun.

Your right; I had plead, reserved my plea,I think.

It is scary ,like a cold call.
But believe me the whole court just wants things to run smoothly so be respectfull, try not to talk too much and ghgh et ... out as soon as they say.
And don't do this or offer them a

[fredr123]

Thanks for the correction, guys. Made the proper changes above.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Generally, Justice applies to "judges" of the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta. That's where you say "M'Lord" or "M,Lady". "Your Honour" is fine in Provincial court. "Sir" or "Madam" works too. If it's a Provincial Court Judge then that's how you address him or her. But, from one of the links I posted above:

Traffic Court is part of the Provincial Court of Alberta. It deals with offences (commonly referred to as provincial offences) under many provincial statutes such as the Highway Traffic Act and the Motor Vehicle Administration Act, as well as municipal by-laws and a few federal statutes. Traffic Court does not deal with charges under most federal statutes, including the Criminal Code.

Trials in Traffic Court are generally heard by a sitting justice of the peace (usually referred to as a Traffic Commissioner). However, Provincial Court judges hear trials at some locations in the province. A Provincial Court judge should be addressed in court as Your Honour, and a Traffic Commissioner, as Your Worship.

Fair enough. Jeez, I didn't know people still said 'm'lord' and 'm'lady'.

A sitting justice does act as a judge though, there is lots of administrative case law on the matter.

[jzA]

Thanks so much for all the help! Greatly Appretiated!

[Dion]

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

You will do fine.