The Real deal on Peer - to - Peer TV (TVU) - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

fanforever1986 · 10-24-2006, 03:15 PM

With all the PPV games on TV lately, a lot of interest has been sparked over peer to peer TV broadcast on the internet. More specifically, issues of Copyright Infringment when it comes to discussing topics relating to TVU.

The idea of TVU is essentially the same as Napster, only instead of people sharing songs, they're sharing TV stations. From what I have gathered from info available on various sites through-out the internet, the issues of copyright law in TV do not mirror the issues that caused the downfall of napster. Main difference being TV programs can be legally recorded AND redistributed for private (home) use - for example, anyone with a PVR can plug the machine into a computer and upload a program to the internet. The idea of TVU simply cuts out the recording process and redistributes a program to other people.

With all that said, it certainly remains clear that the US and other networks are unpleased with TVU because they do not have permission to use the signal. Experts say that shutting down TVU will be useless, because another site just like it will pop up soon enough.

As far as discussing TVU and the programs being offered on it - the mods of CP have nothing to worry about for the time being. Download.com (cnet) has the program available for download and has not even been asked to remove it. Elsewhere, the topic of TVU is being discussed on blogs, other forums, and in news stories.

So basically for now there is no problem with discussing anything to do with peer - to - peer networks, although things could change eventually.

Here's a Cnet story on TVU:

http://news.com.com/TVUPlayer+Anothe...tml?tag=st.num

Flash Walken · 10-24-2006, 03:23 PM

Very interesting.

fredr123 · 10-24-2006, 03:26 PM

No offence, but your opinion as to whether Bingo et al has anything to worry about with respect to The Service That Shall Remain Nameless (TSTSRN) isn't legal advice and is shaky at best. I'm no copyright expert but I am able to read and the story from cnet that you provided doesn't say that TSTSRN is legal or in fact is immune to copyright law. None of the information is applicable to Canadian copyright law where sharing of music is much closer to legal than in the United States. But the same exemptions that make music sharing close to legal don't apply to other forms of media. So, yeah.

photon · 10-24-2006, 03:31 PM

Discussing P2P is fine, posting links to sites with copyrighted P2P content isn't. Pretty straight forward. With this app, posting the link to the app is also posting the link to the distrubted/questionable content. So there's no line to draw in the sand.

Discussing this app in abstract terms in the off topic fourms is ok with me.

The problem comes in people discussing the app in the game thread, giving the channel, and even discussing it in a thread started by the people who run the PPV games!

And just because cNet does it doesn't mean anything; the laws in the US are different, and they have many lawyers to consult with and defend them. So the situations are very different.

As was said before, just because YOU think the risk is worth it doesn't mean the site owner thinks the same way.

I'll let Bingo decide if he wants to limit discussion of this app to this thread, or remove it from the site entirely.

Flash Walken · 10-24-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredr123

No offence, but your opinion as to whether Bingo et al has anything to worry about with respect to The Service That Shall Remain Nameless (TSTSRN) isn't legal advice and is shaky at best. I'm no copyright expert but I am able to read and the story from cnet that you provided doesn't say that TSTSRN is legal or in fact is immune to copyright law. None of the information is applicable to Canadian copyright law where sharing of music is much closer to legal than in the United States. But the same exemptions that make music sharing close to legal don't apply to other forms of media. So, yeah.

I don't think he's claiming to be giving legal advice, just that the mood of the internet to this is that nothing needs to be done...at this moment.

You don't stop going out after 10 if you think there might be a curfew in the future, you go out after 10 until such time as there is a curfew, seems to be a strategy that works all over the place.

Shazam · 10-24-2006, 03:37 PM

Oh dear.

Look people. Just because something is "right" or "ambiguous" doesn't mean that CP can't get sued because of it. Right or wrong, people will sue. Yes, CP might win. Yes, the suit might get dismissed. BUT, CP will still be out the time and the money. It's not like Bingo's walking around with a few grand in his pocket going "I'm prepared to die on a sword for my board!"

So, what do you want? A forum run by some people who are giving their time and money to give us some fun, or nothing at all?

fredr123 · 10-24-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazam

Oh dear.

Look people. Just because something is "right" or "ambiguous" doesn't mean that CP can't get sued because of it. Right or wrong, people will sue. Yes, CP might win. Yes, the suit might get dismissed. BUT, CP will still be out the time and the money. It's not like Bingo's walking around with a few grand in his pocket going "I'm prepared to die on a sword for my board!"

So, what do you want? A forum run by some people who are giving their time and money to give us some fun, or nothing at all?

Can't Bingo just use the money he collects from all the user fees? Oh, right...

SpitFire40 · 10-24-2006, 04:00 PM

Seriously, CP should make a "Insiders club" type of deal. I am a subscriber to the one at www.doubleminor.net that gives you perks like larger avatars, and access to an uncensored private board.

I'd be happy to pay $10 a year for something like this. If anything it'll just assist CP with costs to run the site, and we don't need a disgusting KevanGuy Cheeseburger eating contest...

Winsor_Pilates · 10-24-2006, 04:12 PM

Darn PC's. I still can't find any P2P tv programs for Mac and I've been looking pretty hard.
I guess I just have to weigh the good with the bad and be thankful for the advantages my Mac does give me.

photon · 10-24-2006, 04:45 PM

Alright, the line is basically: discussion in abstract of this program in the off topic forum is ok. Talking about how it works, how it impacts society and copyright law and all that is fine.

Talking about what channel and what specifically is available isn't. Pimping it specifically for the program that would be of significant interest to people who frequent this forum isn't. Discussing it in the Flames forum isn't.

Hopefully easy enough line.

JiriHrdina · 10-24-2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

Alright, the line is basically: discussion in abstract of this program in the off topic forum is ok. Talking about how it works, how it impacts society and copyright law and all that is fine.

Talking about what channel and what specifically is available isn't. Pimping it specifically for the program that would be of significant interest to people who frequent this forum isn't. Discussing it in the Flames forum isn't.

Hopefully easy enough line.

And if it isn't easy enough...ask before you post if you have any doubts. And not me because I know squat about all this technical mumbo jumbo. Photon is probably a safer bet.

fanforever1986 · 10-24-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazam

Oh dear.

Look people. Just because something is "right" or "ambiguous" doesn't mean that CP can't get sued because of it. Right or wrong, people will sue. Yes, CP might win. Yes, the suit might get dismissed. BUT, CP will still be out the time and the money. It's not like Bingo's walking around with a few grand in his pocket going "I'm prepared to die on a sword for my board!"

So, what do you want? A forum run by some people who are giving their time and money to give us some fun, or nothing at all?

Does CP have a bounty on its head or something? If you're going to sue CP - why not just sue the internet?

Winsor_Pilates · 10-24-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

Does CP have a bounty on its head or something?

Yes. Keep it on the DL. A lot of people are after us.

fredr123 · 10-24-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

Does CP have a bounty on its head or something? If you're going to sue CP - why not just sue the internet?

Al Gore set it up so it's difficult to sustain a cause of action against a series of tubes.

Reggie Dunlop · 10-24-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

Does CP have a bounty on its head or something? If you're going to sue CP - why not just sue the internet?

Fact is, CP has been successfully sued in the past for copyright infringement.

Since you are not privy to the daily dealings happening behind the scenes, it's not up to you to determine policy.

Since you are not answerable to rights holders, my advice to you is to defer to forum administration. They're under no mandate to crusade issues you individually feel strong about.

Shazam · 10-24-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

Does CP have a bounty on its head or something? If you're going to sue CP - why not just sue the internet?

I dunno. Why don't I just sue you for something spurious? You seem to have such a great grasp of the law, I'm sure there's no way you could lose.

And as Reggie Dunlop said, this board has been sued. So much for your legal ramblings.

Flash Walken · 10-24-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredr123

Al Gore set it up so it's difficult to sustain a cause of action against a series of tubes.

Prosecution of the internet would be far easier if it was just a big truck you could dump affidavits in.

fredr123 · 10-24-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Prosecution of the internet would be far easier if it was just a big truck you could dump affidavits in.

anyonebutedmonton · 10-24-2006, 05:47 PM

I am not privy to the information regarding past litigation. But I have a hard time believing that the nhl would sue CP for posting a link to a site that may or may not be doing something illegal. It is much more likely for a person with a vendetta against CP to sue for slander or defamation. Large companies would be much more likely to sue the P2P provider. Things that are illegal are discussed on message boards all over. I understand it better to be safe than sorry but I find it amusing this is even an issue.

anyonebutedmonton · 10-24-2006, 05:48 PM

Can some of you wise long serving members of CP be kind enough to educate us what the succesful litigation was concerning.