Best Undergrad University?

[heardman]

Hello,

So I may not have many posts, but I am a loyal CPer who throughly enjoys the banter that goes on every single day here. Most of the relivant news I recieve comes from the Off-Topic Forum and then I turn around and present that as 'truth' to everyone I talk to.

Here's my question... Having left Calgary about 3 weeks ago to take Undergrad business at Queens, where would you consider the best undergrad program to be in Canada? I know here, everyone truly feels that Queens is the best without a doubt, but I'm sure the plently of wise people on CP will have differing views.

Love every minute of CP.

Spenser

[troutman]

Western.

Hottest babes.

[peter12]

Doesn't matter. Go to where your program is best. Don't spend ridiculous amounts of money going away for your undergrad when your local university is just as competitive.

[teamchachi]

Dude. You're probably not going to like the answer. Unless you're in a specialized program that is leading to a Masters, PHD, or professional program, undergrad programs are pretty much all the same. It really comes down to how a few factors:

1) Where do you want to live?
2) How big a school do you want to go to?
3) How much do you want to spend?
4) Who are you trying to impress?
5) Who has the prettiest buildings?

From an academic perspective, you're pretty much using all the same learning materials regardless of the institution.

Professors (for the most part) are professors.

TA's are pretty much TA's. Some speak better English than others.

I've been out for 11 years now (U of A Bsc Honors), and I did the student politics thing. I've seen the inner workings of the ivory tower called academia. I even applied (kissed ass) and got accepted to a Master program. I've talked this over will all my buddies who went to Queens, Western, U of T, UBC, McGill, etc. We figure it probably doesn't matter at all.

You will be stunned when you graduate and realize: "Wow, I thought I'd be a lot smarter than this". In many courses you are still learning a lot of pretty basic stuff even in 4th year. Certainly not the kind of stuff that one university is going to be able to teach way better than another.

To be perfectly honest, I'd forgotten 90% of what I learned in University by the time I was out for 5 years. So does it really matter where I learned it?

Yes, it probably makes a difference if you're trying to get into a Masters program or land a job at a prestigious law firm. But for 95% of university attendees, Lethbridge is just as good as Queens.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by peter12

Doesn't matter. Go to where your program is best. Don't spend ridiculous amounts of money going away for your undergrad when your local university is just as competitive.

While I agree with going to the institution that has the best specific program, I think I learned a heck of a lot by moving away to go to university. Some of the lessons were hard, but they were all valuable. I know many people who lived at home and went to school, and the majority regretted the decision.

Perhaps it is different in AB; I grew up in London, On, and off the top of my head I can come up with 8 universities within a 2 hour drive (Windsor, Western, Laurier, Waterloo, Guelph, York, UofT and my alma mater, McMaster), so perhaps that is a bit different than being a time zone away, although typically I would only go home once a semester and at Christmas.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by teamchachi

Dude. You're probably not going to like the answer. Unless you're in a specialized program that is leading to a Masters, PHD, or professional program, undergrad programs are pretty much all the same. It really comes down to how a few factors:

1) Where do you want to live?
2) How big a school do you want to go to?
3) How much do you want to spend?
4) Who are you trying to impress?
5) Who has the prettiest buildings?

From an academic perspective, you're pretty much using all the same learning materials regardless of the institution.

Professors (for the most part) are professors.

TA's are pretty much TA's. Some speak better English than others.

I've been out for 11 years now (U of A Bsc Honors), and I did the student politics thing. I've seen the inner workings of the ivory tower called academia. I even applied (kissed ass) and got accepted to a Master program. I've talked this over will all my buddies who went to Queens, Western, U of T, UBC, McGill, etc. We figure it probably doesn't matter at all.

You will be stunned when you graduate and realize: "Wow, I thought I'd be a lot smarter than this". In many courses you are still learning a lot of pretty basic stuff even in 4th year. Certainly not the kind of stuff that one university is going to be able to teach way better than another.

To be perfectly honest, I'd forgotten 90% of what I learned in University by the time I was out for 5 years. So does it really matter where I learned it?

Yes, it probably makes a difference if you're trying to get into a Masters program or land a job at a prestigious law firm. But for 95% of university attendees, Lethbridge is just as good as Queens.

You forgot the most important one of all!
"Which one looks best on my resume?"

[ernie]

As posted, undergrad programs are pretty much the same everywhere. You essentially take the same material and take similar tests. Doesn't matter if it's U of C or Yale. There is a prestige issue with some universities like Yale or Harvard etc that looks good on a resume but when it comes to canadian schools one doesn't have more prestige than another except in a few select programs (and even then in the end it's minimal).

I'll second that it only really matters for MSc and PhD and even then I will qualify that by it being more dependent on supervisor than school. Many schools that one typically looks at as having a poor graduate program have that one guy in a particular field that is a well respected and leading researcher. Work for that guy and no one gives a crap what school you are at.

[skins]

Originally Posted by White Doors

You forgot the most important one of all!
"Which one looks best on my resume?"

even that fact doesn't carry nearly as much weight as it used to, especially when comparing Canadian Univesities. Employers care a lot more about what kind of person you are and how you will fit into their company than where you got your degree.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

that's actually a very personal question as many things come into play

location
money
program
professors (TAs?)

I went to a small east coast university for my undergrad (Cape Breton University... GOOOOOO CAPERS) and did a BA Poli Sci/Communication double major.

I then went to Dalhousie (big university) for my masters degree (in Public Admin). CBU didn't hinder my acceptance into Dal, in fact my experiance at Dal left me very confident and with a strong base to do very well in my MPA program.

I'm a big fan of small univeristy for undergrad, and then moving to big... if you intend to do post-graduate work. Going to classes of 35-50 was a big jump for me, I was used to smaller class sizes. Fellow classmates found it odd that I knew my undergrad profs by name, would run into them in town, and in one case a classmate was at a conference in Toronto ended up sitting at a table with an old prof of mine who said "you're in the MPA at Dal, well you must know Jon Patterson?" My colleague nearly fell out of his chair.

I also never had a TA... unless in a lab, the class was taught by the prof with a PhD, I mean that's normal isn't it :P

It's that experiance that I truly value (that and well it was in my backyard so cost of living was zee to the row).

That's another major factor in determining the "best" university. What's the cost factor? I think it's bloody stupid to go to a university a ways away from home and end up spending a pile more money, than what you could get in your own backyard.

The "best" university is really what's "the best" for you.

That said

GO CAPERS GO

[BCReefer]

Originally Posted by teamchachi

Dude. You're probably not going to like the answer. Unless you're in a specialized program that is leading to a Masters, PHD, or professional program, undergrad programs are pretty much all the same. It really comes down to how a few factors:

1) Where do you want to live?
2) How big a school do you want to go to?
3) How much do you want to spend?
4) Who are you trying to impress?
5) Who has the prettiest buildings?

From an academic perspective, you're pretty much using all the same learning materials regardless of the institution.

Professors (for the most part) are professors.

TA's are pretty much TA's. Some speak better English than others.

I've been out for 11 years now (U of A Bsc Honors), and I did the student politics thing. I've seen the inner workings of the ivory tower called academia. I even applied (kissed ass) and got accepted to a Master program. I've talked this over will all my buddies who went to Queens, Western, U of T, UBC, McGill, etc. We figure it probably doesn't matter at all.

You will be stunned when you graduate and realize: "Wow, I thought I'd be a lot smarter than this". In many courses you are still learning a lot of pretty basic stuff even in 4th year. Certainly not the kind of stuff that one university is going to be able to teach way better than another.

To be perfectly honest, I'd forgotten 90% of what I learned in University by the time I was out for 5 years. So does it really matter where I learned it?

Yes, it probably makes a difference if you're trying to get into a Masters program or land a job at a prestigious law firm. But for 95% of university attendees, Lethbridge is just as good as Queens.

Do you find that the place you obtained your degree is looked at? I am looking at obtaining my EMBA as I did not attend university instead I went to technical school.

I have reviewed many EMAB located in the world and it looks like I found what I want in Wales UK. They accept a designation in purchasing that I obtained and I only need to attend 2 weekend classes but write 3 papers over a 1 year period.

I am not sure really what having MBA on my resume or B-Card will do but it can't hurt. COst is ~$13,000 including 2 trips to UK. Athabasca is $45,000 and 2.5 years and I would need to take the same courses all over again. Uggh.

[daveyboy]

In picking a university you ought to weigh some more personal implications as well as the academic. I go to U of Regina, partly because it is a great school, rates well, good size for me but also because it's close enough to Calgary that I don't feel completely isolated from my family but I am far enough away that I have my independence.

Part of university is about learning in class and the other part is about learning who you really are...plus I love the pajama parties in rez.

[teamchachi]

Originally Posted by White Doors

You forgot the most important one of all!
"Which one looks best on my resume?"

I suppose its an issue when applying for some jobs. Example, KPMG might care which business school you went to and what your GPA was. However, for 95% of University Grads its just a piece of paper that hangs on the wall that proves you've paid your dues and can pass tests. I honestly don't think most employers care at all where your undergrad came from as long as it is recognized and accredited.

Did my friends who went away to Queens have more fun? Probably. Was it worth all the extra money that they paid? Hmmmm......

[teamchachi]

Originally Posted by BCReefer

Do you find that the place you obtained your degree is looked at? I am looking at obtaining my EMBA as I did not attend university instead I went to technical school.

I have reviewed many EMAB located in the world and it looks like I found what I want in Wales UK. They accept a designation in purchasing that I obtained and I only need to attend 2 weekend classes but write 3 papers over a 1 year period.

I am not sure really what having MBA on my resume or B-Card will do but it can't hurt. COst is ~$13,000 including 2 trips to UK. Athabasca is $45,000 and 2.5 years and I would need to take the same courses all over again. Uggh.

I think that the institution is probably more important when it comes to Masters programs. We were talking about undergrad programs.

In my opininon, and talking to some guys with MBAs, an MBA is a great thing to have if you want to be a successful entrepreneur. It is also a great way to move up the pay scale if you're already working in a big company. They are becoming more common so an MBA isn't necessarily the magic ticket to your dream job any more.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by heardman

Hello,

So I may not have many posts, but I am a loyal CPer who throughly enjoys the banter that goes on every single day here. Most of the relivant news I recieve comes from the Off-Topic Forum and then I turn around and present that as 'truth' to everyone I talk to.

Here's my question... Having left Calgary about 3 weeks ago to take Undergrad business at Queens, where would you consider the best undergrad program to be in Canada? I know here, everyone truly feels that Queens is the best without a doubt, but I'm sure the plently of wise people on CP will have differing views.

Love every minute of CP.

Spenser

Why would you leave Calgary to take business? The Haskayne School of Business is probably considered as one of the top 5 business schools in North America and has a great reputation in the Calgary/oilfield community.

[@theCBE]

Originally Posted by TanguayFan

Why would you leave Calgary to take business? The Haskayne School of Business is probably considered as one of the top 5 business schools in North America and has a great reputation in the Calgary/oilfield community.

Haskayne is a good business school. Calling it one of the top 5 in Canada is acceptable I guess, but top 5 in North America is crazy.

Edit: To add to what others have already said. I quickly realized during the end of my UG degree and especially when I had graduated and was applying to grad school. It really makes no difference where you do you first degree, I paid quite a bit of money just to move 3 hours north and go to U of A when I could have saved my money and done my degree in Calgary. The experience of living away from home was awesome, and I loved the U of A; but now that I needed to take out a LOC to do my second degree I wish I would have saved that money and gone to U of C. I really feel that my degree and not the school that I obtained it from is what made the difference when applying to the next level of post secondary education.

[Shazam]

UG programs are all the same. When you come out, you'll know barely enough to function at some job somewhere. That's when you'll find out just how little you really know.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by TanguayFan

Why would you leave Calgary to take business? The Haskayne School of Business is probably considered as one of the top 5 business schools in North America and has a great reputation in the Calgary/oilfield community.

Queen's isn't too shabby either (at least when it comes to post grad).

BusinessWeek (USA) - October 2005
Ranking of Executive MBA programs #1 in Canada: Queen’s School of Business

BusinessWeek (USA) - October 2005
Ranking of open-enrollment executive education # 1 in Canada, # 10 in the world: Queen’s School of Business

BusinessWeek (USA) - October 2004
Ranking of top MBA programs outside the U.S.: 1 Queen’s School of Business (Canada) 2 IMD (Switzerland) 3 INSEAD (France)

Financial Times (UK) - May 2005
Ranking of top 45 Global Executive Programs (open-enrollment programs) #1 in Canada, #16 in the world: Queen’s School of Business

Environics Report on Executive Education - February 2004
Best Executive MBA: 1 Queen’s School of Business 2 Richard Ivey School of Business 3 Rotman School of Management
Best non-degree Executive Education: 1 Queen’s School of Business 2 Richard Ivey School of Business 3 Schulich School of Business

Forbes (USA) - 2003
Ranking of Best Business Schools #2 in Canada, #10 outside the US