Canadian universities withdraw from Maclean's survey

[RedHot25]

The following is a letter that was sent to Maclean's magazine from university presidents across the country. It indicates their collective intention to withdraw from the magazine's annual university survey. Most of the country's leading research universities, including Dalhousie, are united in this action. The rationale for the decision is outlined below

http://www.dal.ca/news/2006/08/14/macleans.html

And

Questions and Answers - http://www.dal.ca/news/2006/08/14/macleans-qanda.html

[RedHot25]

The following universities are withdrawing...

Tom Traves, Dalhousie University
Peter George, McMaster University
Michael Stevenson, Simon Fraser University
Indira Samarasekeera, University of Alberta
Stephen Toope, University of British Columbia
Harvey Weingarten, University of Calgary
William Cade, University of Lethbridge
Emoke Szathmary, University of Manitoba
Luc Vinet, University of Montreal
Gilles Patry, University of Ottawa
David Naylor, University of Toronto

[Lucky boy]

Thats a slap across the face for Macleans. I remember reading reports that Universities were upset with the Magazine accusing it of showing a bias.

I didn't know that the schools had a say on whether they can be ranked or not.

[evman150]

I guess David Turpin and the University of Victoria feel they have gotten a fair shake..?

Sucks for MacLeans.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

This doesn't supprise me at all.

I know one of the categories that the universities get points for in the survey is the ammount of government funding they recieve. I suppose MacLeans feels that the diversity of provincial government spending is irrelevant, and that more government funding = a better school. Meanwhile the U of C is near the top for corporate funding (for research etc), but this does not get taken into account.

I'm sure there are several other factors that get ignored or disporportionatly weighted.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the only people who put a lot of stock in this survey (at least for the last couple years) are people wit some connection to St. FX.

[Bobblehead]

It is just too tough to rank the institutions straight up like that. Saying that an institution is 1 or 2 is misleading; the only way to evaluate would possibly be program by program; and even than many programs distinguish themselves in different ways via traditional vs co-op, lecture vs group learning, and so on.

Think it was valuable to have things like class sizes, tuition fees, available spots and so on listed like MacLeans did; but to use them for an absolute ranking is disengenuous at best.

[Flash Walken]

about time.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

It is just too tough to rank the institutions straight up like that. Saying that an institution is 1 or 2 is misleading; the only way to evaluate would possibly be program by program; and even than many programs distinguish themselves in different ways via traditional vs co-op, lecture vs group learning, and so on.

Think it was valuable to have things like class sizes, tuition fees, available spots and so on listed like MacLeans did; but to use them for an absolute ranking is disengenuous at best.

Exactly.

It's just ignorant to rate a university as a whole. The difference in quality from program-to-program within a university is huge. Even factors like class size and available spots are much different between programs.

Good on these universities for withdrawing from that ridiculous poll.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

my undergrad univeristy's been taking it up the a** since the survey came out. Blows my mind how St FX is consistantly year after year ranked #1 for Primary Undergraduate in Canada. The rankings are a complete joke, glad to see that universities are starting to speak out against it.

On a side note, a few years back I filled out one of the surveys about Cape Breton Univeristy (formerly UCCB) and everything I wrote was printed in MacLean's except for my only con to the unversity "MacLean's bias rankings" isn't that odd?

[browna]

Good to see a solid group rejecting what turns out to be, more and more, even since I finished university 8 years ago, to be no more then a publicity peice for Macleans. A rag whos credibility as a magazine has slipped lower and lower, ever since being branded with the Rogers Communications moniker.

So what does that leave those sheep who wait for the magazine to tell them where to go, with, as far as major institutions:

Western
McGill
St. FX
U Vic

Laval
Brock
U of Sask
U of Regina (try not to giggle)

[Hakan]

The Maclean's analysis is entirely quantitative. They have a complex formula where they input all the data that is a) easily quantifiable and b) deemed important by them.

They then print out a list of which University has the best score based on their entirely numerical data and proclaim who the winner is. It's not exactly a convincing system and has resulted in some damaging changes in the way universities run themselves. Specifically, some universities like my alma mater, UBC, focused their academic improvement budgets on areas that would boost their Macleans score instead of taking a more holistic improvement scheme.

I'm glad this is the end of the road for this rating system.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by browna

So what does that leave those sheep who wait for the magazine to tell them where to go, with, as far as major institutions:

Western
McGill
St. FX
U Vic

Laval
Brock
U of Sask
U of Regina (try not to giggle)

The University of Brandon
Ni****ing University
Lakehead University
Royal Roads
The University of Winnipeg.

Smaller universities that tend to get hosed in the rankings. I would have thought that they would have joined the others.

[JimmytheT]

Not only in MacLean's University ranking a joke, MacLean's Magazine as a publication is, as Professor Atkins put it in my 2002 Econ 303 class, a "Piece of ". I find the magazine lacks direction, and its articles are bland and all in all useless.

Im glad this wretched system of ranking schools is going to the dogs.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by browna

U of Regina (try not to giggle)

I'm not going to giggle, there was and is nothing wrong with the U of R. Granted, in the last oh 15 years it's been looked upon as the poor cousin however the U of R was a progressive university and is still offering unique programs.

They were leading edge in offering a public adminsitration major, had a well respected civil engineering programme, and were one of the first universities, and I think first in the west, to offer a Coop programme.

They still have a number good offerings (paraphrasing from the site): the petroleum engineering program is the largest in the country, The police studies degree program is the only one of its kind in North America, the Health Studies program is the only undergraduate health studies degree in Western Canada. Plus, oddly enough, The U of R has and continues to be a popular university for international students.

I'm obviously an alumni, and as one, I don't feel like it ever hurt me one bit. My business degree is as good as one I could have gotten from any other university I was looking at attending...in fact at the time The U of C had a rather poor rep, a lot of that had to due with the lack of a coop programme.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The University of Brandon
Ni****ing University
Lakehead University
Royal Roads
The University of Winnipeg.

Smaller universities that tend to get hosed in the rankings. I would have thought that they would have joined the others.

Queen's.

I agree with Flash, about time.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by icarus

Queen's.

I agree with Flash, about time.

I thought Queen's always finished ridiculously high in the rankings?

[icarus]

I only mentioned Queen's because it had been left off all the lists in this thread.

I don't know how well Queen's usually ranks. Actually I think there was some hubbub this year in Kingston because Queen's didn't do very well (who knows) but I really didn't pay much attention. I've always found the MacLean's rankings to be inaccurate, horribly pretentious, and generally useless. Apart from the Strathcona Tweedsmuir/Upper Canada College types who attribute it near-Biblical status, the rankings serve only as a passing curiousity or thorn in the side of acadmemic egoists.

Although I have no idea I will take a wild stab and guess that most of MacLean's staff attended U of T, Queen's or McGill (and maybe U of O or Dalhousie for journalism school), so it would be hard to expect a fair-handed report. I could be wrong though.

[troutman]

My survey results are in:

Western has the hottest babes, and UBC is the most fun.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by icarus

Queen's.

I agree with Flash, about time.

We hire from accross the country and find that the smaller universitys produce harder workers, are more creative with answers and work better in team environments.

If maclean's wanted to make a useful list they should index their rankings based on what employers actually think.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by troutman

UBC is the most fun.

Really? I had a lot of UBC-grad friends at Queen's who much preferred the small university-town experience to the big city commuter-school experience.

I think Western could contend for both hottest girls and most fun. The notorious tales of Saugeen are widely-known.