Veterans next year: Who should stay & who should go?

[Karl]

Begin: Has done OK at his job in general as a crash and bang forward, but I don't think we need to re-up him. Go.

Cammalleri: On one hand, it would be nice to get rid of his huge cap hit. On another hand, he is still a lethal weapon on the PP. Can be a liability at times 5 on 5 however but is the Flames 2nd most talented pure offensive weapon (between him & Tanguay). Not sure if I want him to stay or go.

Glencross: Although he can take the most stupid penalties at times and is prone to some cold streaks too, he has one of if not the best value contracts in the NHL right now. Can light the lamp with regularity when he's on and the grittiness is still there when he wants to use it. Keep.

Hudler: Isn't the greatest of skaters and is soft, but can be a magician with the puck. So creative and smart in the offensive zone, if not so much in the defensive zone. Keeper.

Jackman: Has picked it up of late and is an effective crash and banger. Skates well for his size too. Not sure I wanna keep him though.

McGrattan: I'd say keep him for no other reason other than that he's the only guy who can really be any sort of deterrent for opposing players cheapshotting our players. Keep.

Stajan: FINALLY showed signs of life late last season and started to play like he could with the Leafs. Has continued that play and turned that into a resurgence this year. Is not good enough to live up to the $3.5 mil cap hit, but is playing well enough to be close to the $2.5 mil he's now making. Has played legitimately well this year and unlike 2 years ago and even last year, he hasn't had that many truly bad games this season. His +5 rating he has is also actually indicative of his good overall defensive play and it's a minor miracle he's achieved that on this team. Sure it would be great if he could score a bit more and wasn't so soft, but he's had a solid season nonetheless any way you look at it. I think he deserves to see out his contract here. Unless you get a good offer for him in the offseason, one more year!

Stempniak: Good skater, who competes, hustles and forechecks well, and of course he can also score quite effectively. Has had a good season no doubt. Unless you can get a 1st rounder for him, I think he should be kept.

Tanguay: I'd say the Flames most offensively talented forward still here. Is a tremendous playmaker who can make some ridiculoulsly good passes. Also has a good sniper shot which he should use more. Sadly, as some peolple have pointed out, he looks like he's 'mailed it in' since Iggy left. Won't be steamed if he's still here but won't cry if he's gone either. I'm saying he shouldn't be here. Go.

Babchuk: Pretty much a massive liability with the exception of a booming slapshot. Way too slow, way not good. Go.

Giordano: Has had without a doubt a nightmare of a season. Still, he's much better than that. Too good not to keep unless you get an insane offer for him, he should be kept. Keep.

Sarich: Can make a case for him to be kept since he's the best physical presence the Flames have. However, I don't think he has it in him to be good enough over an 82 game season anymore with his slow-footedness which is getting no better with age. I think he should be moved unfortunately. Go.

Wideman: Was outright awesome for his first 15 games or so. Has cooled off alot since then. Possesses great offensive instincts and has an uncanny ability to get his point shot through traffic. Can be absolutely dreadful in his own zone but his offense can be good enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings. Keep.

MacDonald: Has been really good to close out the season. Could be good for insurance policy or a 2nd stringer. That said, I'm not sure whether he should stay or go.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

KEEP: Glencross, Stempniak, Hudler, Jackman, McGratton, Giordano, Wideman, MacDonald

GO: Sarich, Babchuk, Begin, Tanguay (not sure we can deal him)

MEH: Cammalleri (maybe deal at the deadline next year?), Stajan (ditto?)

That leaves us with:

Baertschi-Backlund-Stempniak
Glencross-Stajan-Hudler
Cammalleri-Reinhart-Horak
Bouma-Jones-Jackman
Aliu/McGratton

Brodie-Wideman
Giordano-Butler
Breen-Smith
Cundari

Ramo/Berra
MacDonald

Pretty clear if they want to give some of the kids a chance that 1 or more of the vets up front is going to have to go.

We have too many LWs. Cammalleri, Tanguay, Baertschi and Glencross. Something has to give there.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Karl

Begin: Has done OK at his job in general as a crash and bang forward, but I don't think we need to re-up him. Go.

Cammalleri: On one hand, it would be nice to get rid of his huge cap hit. On another hand, he is still a lethal weapon on the PP. Can be a liability at times 5 on 5 however but is the Flames 2nd most talented pure offensive weapon (between him & Tanguay).Keep.

Glencross: Although he can take the most stupid penalties at times and is prone to some cold streaks too, he has one of if not the best value contracts in the NHL right now. Can light the lamp with regularity when he's on and the grittiness is still there when he wants to use it. Keep.

Hudler: Isn't the greatest of skaters and is soft, but can be a magician with the puck. So creative and smart in the offensive zone, if not so much in the defensive zone. Keep.

Jackman: Has picked it up of late and is an effective crash and banger. Skates well for his size too. Go.

McGrattan: I'd say keep him for no other reason other than that he's the only guy who can really be any sort of deterrent for opposing players cheapshotting our players. Keep.

Stajan: FINALLY showed signs of life late last season and started to play like he could with the Leafs. Has continued that play and turned that into a resurgence this year. Is not good enough to live up to the $3.5 mil cap hit, but is playing well enough to be close to the $2.5 mil he's now making. Has played legitimately well this year and unlike 2 years ago and even last year, he hasn't had that many truly bad games this season. His +5 rating he has is also actually indicative of his good overall defensive play and it's a minor miracle he's achieved that on this team. Sure it would be great if he could score a bit more and wasn't so soft, but he's had a solid season nonetheless any way you look at it. I think he deserves to see out his contract here. Unless you get a good offer for him in the offseason, Keep

Stempniak: Good skater, who competes, hustles and forechecks well, and of course he can also score quite effectively. Has had a good season no doubt. Unless you can get a 1st rounder for him, Keep.

Tanguay: I'd say the Flames most offensively talented forward still here. Is a tremendous playmaker who can make some ridiculoulsly good passes. Also has a good sniper shot which he should use more. Sadly, as some peolple have pointed out, he looks like he's 'mailed it in' since Iggy left. Won't be steamed if he's still here but won't cry if he's gone either. I'm saying he shouldn't be here. Go.

Cervenka: Keep

Babchuk: Pretty much a massive liability with the exception of a booming slapshot. Way too slow, way not good. Go.

Giordano: Has had without a doubt a nightmare of a season. Still, he's much better than that. Too good not to keep unless you get an insane offer for him, he should be kept. Keep.

Sarich: Can make a case for him to be kept since he's the best physical presence the Flames have. However, I don't think he has it in him to be good enough over an 82 game season anymore with his slow-footedness which is getting no better with age. I think he should be moved unfortunately. Keep.

Wideman: Was outright awesome for his first 15 games or so. Has cooled off alot since then. Possesses great offensive instincts and has an uncanny ability to get his point shot through traffic. Can be absolutely dreadful in his own zone but his offense can be good enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings. Keep.

MacDonald: Has been really good to close out the season. Could be good for insurance policy or a 2nd stringer.Go

Updated with my thoughts

[Hair bleach and Vodka]

Joey Mac, Hudler, Scoreface, and Cammi. They should stay.

[Roof-Daddy]

Cammalleri
Glencross
Hudler
Stempniak

Giordano
Wideman

If you can get a good deal at the draft or during the summer on Stajan, Jackman or Sarich deal them. If not, keep them for potential deadline rental trade bait if the Flames are out of the playoff race next spring.

I'm still hoping the Flames can move Tanguay at the draft for a package that includes a late first or early second round pick.

Players that I'm "meh" about include MacDonald, Begin, Smith, McGrattan, Cervenka and Carson.

Babchuk.......see ya later bro.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

KEEP: Glencross, Stempniak, Hudler, Jackman, McGrattan, Giordano, Wideman, MacDonald

GO: Sarich, Babchuk, Begin, Tanguay (not sure we can deal him)

MEH: Cammalleri (maybe deal at the deadline next year?), Stajan (ditto?)

Pretty much this. Although if Stajan is gone, he needs to be replaced with another veteran center just to keep the team functional. We could really use someone with more size in that position.

Although I'd like to point out that Kipper said on the Flames site that he is going to decide about retiring in the summer. So we could still have Kipper instead of MacDonald. Not that it changes much really, except for cap issues.

http://video.flames.nhl.com/videocen...ed-share-video

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Karl

Stajan: Is not good enough to live up to the $3.5 mil cap hit

He did this year. Best player on a team that had players with twice as much cap hit.

It's a lot easier putting up points when you're getting 3 minutes of powerplay a game and don't care about defense like Cammalleri and Tanguay. Stajan was charged with shutting down the other teams top line every night. And he did it with a + rating on a team that gave up 113 5-on-5 goals. (Florida gave up 99 and the next worst team gave up 89). If everyone played above their cap hit like Stajan did, this is a President Trophy winning team.

Unless a team overpays for him, I'd be all for re-signing him short-term. Let the youngins see what playing 200 feet looks like from him.

[FAN]

This is a tough one. What is the goal and plan for this team? Compete for the playoffs next year? Build for the future? If it's the latter, what is the timeframe?


Personally, I think this team needs to rebuild and try to accumulate young talent. If the team is lucky, the team will have a couple of franchise players to build around who will be ready to lead this team to the playoffs in about 3 years. That means that the team doesn't need to go out of their way to get rid of bad contracts, but should try hard to trade away players with long-term contracts because they might not be players you want to have with years remaining 3-4 years later. This team needs a fresh start and transition to a different core. With that in mind, here are my thoughts:


Begin: Go. Give his job to one of the young guys.


Cammalleri: Go if there is a good deal. Otherwise, keep him until the deadline. Considering his loser comments in Montreal, I'm not sure he's the guy you want on a rebuilding team. That and an extension likely won't make sense financially nor would it be desirable.


Glencross: Keep. He's not an easy guy to replace. The team should consider him a 30 goal scorer with a great cap hit and it should take a franchise prospect or young player to get him.


Hudler: Keep. You still need players on the team and given Hudler's age and contract status, he shouldn't cause any problems.


Jackman: Irrelevant. Go or keep on a two-way contract.


McGrattan: Keep on a two-way contract for a dying breed of true HW fighter.


Stajan: Keep. only because I don't think he's worth much. A solid two-way center with size who can play a top 6 role, Stajan is the classic offensive player on a bad team. Give him 16-18 minutes with PP time and he'll get you 50 points. Can't win with him but he'll produce enough to help the team stay competitive in a losing cause. The team needs centers and he fills a role.


Stempniak: Keep until the deadline. He is who he is. He's a streaky goal scorer who ends up with 18-20 goals over 82 games. Useful player to have and should fetch at least a 3rd round pick. Likely a 2nd+ if he's close to 20 goals.


Tanguay: Go. This is one contract Feaster should try hard to get rid of but not pay or give up assets to get rid of him.He'll be 34 and has 3 more years. He does have a decent cap hit and on a losing team you can live with his soft play and hope for 50+ points.


Babchuk: Go. He's probably worth nothing. Give him a chance to earn a spot, if he can't put him on waivers. If he can earn a spot, trade him at the deadline.


Giordano: Go if a good deal can be made, otherwise keep. Gio's game has been trending upwards until last season. Can Gio get back to the way he was two years ago? I'm starting to have my doubts so I think if a good deal comes along you trade him and not take the risk of Gio being the mistake-prone defensemen he has been the past one half seasons. But you need top 4 Dmen and this team only has 3 and that's including Gio.


Sarich: Keep until the deadline. He'll be good in the locker room and his cap hit won't be a problem.


Wideman: Go. Goes back to the question of when this team will contend again. This team shouldn't saddle itself with long-term contracts. With that said Wideman, like Stajan, is a good player to have on a rebuilding club. Wideman is a defensive liability but that's only a big issue in the playoffs. In the regular season Wideman logs minutes, can run the PP, and produce offensively.


MacDonald: Keep for the league minimum. He's been a decent backup here and a good insurance policy in case this team decides that the best goaltenders outside of the NHL will compete for this team's #1 job.

And... Kipper: Lure back! I believe that having a good goaltender back there stabilizes the entire team and allows young guys more freedom to make mistakes knowing that they have a legitimate #1 goaltender back there.

[Vulcan]

At the LW spot I think it's a choice between Tanguay and Cammallari. I'd keep Cammallari as he's shown some jump since he's gotten over the lose of his buddy. The thing is it's going to be hard getting rid of Tanguay. Maybe Iginla can convince the team he signs with to pick him up.

[Alberta_Beef]

My thoughts

I want to keep:
Stajan, Stempniak, McGrattan, Giordano & Wideman
They all seem to be good leaders or team players either in the room or on the ice.

I am okay with keeping:
- 3 of Cammalleri, Glencross, Tanguay & Hudler
- all of Jackman, Sarich, MacDonald
They fill needs of veteran experience and in some cases great character which is good to have around a young team.

I want gone:
- 1 of Cammalleri, Glencross, Tanguay & Hudler
- all of Begin, Cervenka, Babchuk, Smith, Kiprusoff
Nothing against these guys, I just would prefer their spots to be filled with younger players like Bouma, Breen, Cundari & Ramo/Berra as well as our probable top 5 pick.

[t0rrent98]

Keep: Wideman, Giordano, Sarich, Hudler, Cammarelli. Fill the rest with the young corp/1 or 2 more UFA signings.

If it were me, I'd Keep Sarich and Cammy as the two main Veteran peices. Sarich can mentor the back end while Cammy does the front. Cammy has shown signs of mentoring the young guys IMO while we need the toughness from Sarich.

[FlameZilla]

Sarich seems excellent with the younger players. Brodie has played his best hockey with Sarchy out there. Gio and he had a similar vibe when Gio was breaking into the league. $2 million is decent value on his last year & he'd make a good acquisition for a contender at the deadline. Sarich: Keep

Cammalleri is an interesting one. In no way does he give us value for money. Makes $7 million next season with a $6 million cap hit. Making roughly twice as much as he should be based on production. He seems very good with the young players and gives ownership a 'face' to plaster on advertising boards now that Iginla is gone. If a great offer came in at the draft I think you have to take it, but if he sticks around it ain't the end of the world. Keep... maybe

Stempniak is our leading scorer, our only natural top 9 RW & has a great attitude. No matter how much some folks here are pining for us to ice an AHL team to tank there is no way that happens. Good contract. He's part of the solution, not the problem. Stempniak: keep

Glenncross is on a great contract, is a local guy who actually wants to be here, and has certain qualities that would be best taken advantage of in a reduced role on the 2nd or 3rd line. keep

Tanguay came out of the gates flying this year and gradually became less and less effective. There's no doubt that, when he wants to, he's a top skill guy. He just doesn't seem to bring the same effort every night. The wind completely left his sails when the Iginla trade talk was heating up. His knee injury looked really, really bad & at his age I could see him having a lot of trouble bouncing back. We're overstocked at LW, so I would do everything I could to deal him at the draft. He would be a prime buyout candidate in my eyes, as his contract spans 4 more years. Tanguay: Go

Stajan had his only ok season as a Flame, increasing his trade value from precisely nothing to precisely next-to-nothing. One year left at $2.5 million with a cap hit of $3.5 million could potentially be appealing to some cellar-dwelling teams in danger of breaching the cap-basement. Backlund, Horak, Reinhart, Bouma & Jones would be a serviceable lineup down the middle, plus is we're lucky we could have an NHL-ready C with our lottery pick. I don't mind if he stays, but if we can take advantage of his value being at its absolute highest since the Phaneuf deal & pick up a draft pick or prospect for him I would deal him in a heartbeat. Stajan: Go... Maybe

Jackman and McGrattan are interchangable in my eyes and they are both playing well currently as I think they are auditioning for the thug role next season. Jackman took last season off, in my opinion, and though he is playing well currently I can't help but think he doesn't bring his best game when he's comfortable. I quite like the look of the 2 behemoths crashing & banging on the 4th line. I would keep one, both or neither. Jackman & McGrattan meh

Begin: Go but I suspect he'll stay as he's pals with Hartley

Wideman has put up good numbers. I like his outlet passing, pinching & slapshot. Suspect defensive play, so he fits right in with our entire D corps. He's a great 2nd-pairing D with PP abilities, but he's getting paid to be a 1st-pairing D. He'll be sticking around. Hopefully we can find a stud 1st-pairing right-sided D man that pushes Wideman down to the 2nd-pairing. Wideman: keep

Giordano is likely to be our next captain. I agree his play has taken a step back this season but he's a fan favourite and his trade value isn't likely to be very high. Eventually some of our young defenders might make him expendable, and when that happens he might fetch a decent return at the deadline. Gio: keep

Cervenka doesn't play C, it turns out, so he contributes to our log-jam at LW. His health concerns have likely been contributing to his lacklustre effort out there, but there's no point keeping him around when we have plenty of non-physical skill guys out-playing him. I like what he has occasionally shown, but overall he has been a disappointing signing. Is it worth giving him another shot? Very possible that he would be more effective next season when he is fully recovered from his health issues and given a full training camp to learn the systems. Take a wait-and-see approach with him; if all of Tanguay, Cammalleri, Glenncross, Hudler, Baertschi, Horak, Bouma & Byron are still in play next season we should let him walk. If there are more wholesale changes then it might be worth giving him one more chance. Cervenka: Go... maybe

Derek Smith is as meh as meh can be. League minimum contract, so he can stay unless one of Cundari, Wotherspoon, Breen or Kulak play him out of a job. Smith: meh

The goalie situation is 100% up in the air. Kiprussoff has stated he won't decide 100% until the offseason. If he decides to stay then we have an opportunity to test out BerroRama as backup, and see if either of them has the ability to translate their game to the NHL. If Kipper goes, penning in BerroRama as our only starting goalie option is roughly equivalent to pinning all our hopes on a potential Henrick Karlsson. Berra certainly looks Karlsson-esque in style, with any luck he won't be as terrible. Ramo's NHL stats are Karlsson-esque, but with any luck he's learnt how to be less terrible in the KHL. I predict that if Kipper goes Feaster will attempt to bring in someone he knows. I would bet the house on him making a ridiculous UFA offer to Mike Smith. The only way Joey MacDonald signs is if he can't get a known quantity in as starter. My ideal situation is Kiprussoff stays on as a 1a/1b mentor to Ramo or Berra. Kiprussoff: keep if we can; Joey MacDonald: go, but sign as a last resort

Leaving us with a lineup somewhat similar to this, barring any returns we would get in deals for Stajan & Tanguay (a young RW & D would be an ideal return):

Baertschi Backlund Stempniak
Cammalleri Horak Hudler
Glenncross Reinhart _________
Bouma Jones Jackman/McGrattan

Giordano Wideman
Brodie Sarich
Butler ______
Smith

Kiprussoff
BerroRama

... and draft Sam Reinhart with the 2nd overall pick!

[moon]

If you get a decent deal for any of them then any of them should go. There isn't really any of them that should be kept no matter what. But you have to have vets on the team to provide leadership and take pressure off the young guys.

I think they should probably keep Gio and Glencross around. Both have issues and it would be great to see Glencross stop the pouting and whining when things don't go his way but he is on a good contract, hardworker most of the time and willing/able to do the dirty work that can help on a line with young guys.

I think you keep one of Tanguay or Cammy for their offense but both really aren't needed. Trade whichever one brings back more.

Stajan has shown enough this season and with a one year deal and lack of center depth I think you keep him until the deadline and see what you can get then.

Jackman and McGrattan provide cheap toughness and effort for the 4th line so keep them. Begin has got some lucky goals and tries but is old, slow and crappy no need for him to stay at all he should be gone.

If you can get anything for Stempniak then deal him. Way to streaky and doesn't add anything to a rebuilding team. Taking a spot of a younger guy that likely isn't as good in the 40 games that Stempniak shows up for but is better in the 40 games he disappears for and is at least developing.

Don't think you will get much for Hudler with his deal and you just signed him so keep him around for his 1-2 fancy plays a game to entertain fans and since winning isn't important his many shortcomings aren't that big a deal but do try to move him if you can to get rid of the albatross contract by time the team is ready to turn it around.

Babchuk gone. Sarich adds toughness and is steady on defense. Definitely keep him.

Wideman like Hudler likely isn't going anywhere with his deal and you just signed him so might want to keep him for that reason as well. If you can move him for anything get rid of him and his deal but likely has to stick around due to lack of interest.

MacDonald has played okay and could come back but that depends on what is going on with Ramo and Kipper. If Kipper is back and Ramo coming over no room for MacDonald. If Kipper retires he could be a decent vet to keep to help young guys and play a few games at okay ability.

Tanguay-Backlund-Baertschi
UFA-Stajan-Hudler
Glencross-Reinhart-Horak
McGratton-Bouma-Jackman

Brodie-Gio
Wideman-Sarich
Butler-Smith/Breen/Cundari

[chedder]

Glencross is really reminding me of Rene Bourque 2.0. great tools no toolbox. Really frustrating when he floats and takes terrible penalties.
I'd be willing to bet his 30 goal seasons will be few and far between going forward. Cheap enough contract is the only thing keeping him here.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

KEEP: Glencross, Stempniak, Hudler, Jackman, McGratton, Giordano, Wideman, MacDonald

GO: Sarich, Babchuk, Begin, Tanguay (not sure we can deal him)

MEH: Cammalleri (maybe deal at the deadline next year?), Stajan (ditto?)

That leaves us with:

Baertschi-Backlund-Stempniak
Glencross-Stajan-Hudler
Cammalleri-Reinhart-Horak
Bouma-Jones-Jackman
Aliu/McGratton

Brodie-Wideman
Giordano-Butler
Breen-Smith
Cundari

Ramo/Berra
MacDonald

Pretty clear if they want to give some of the kids a chance that 1 or more of the vets up front is going to have to go.

We have too many LWs. Cammalleri, Tanguay, Baertschi and Glencross. Something has to give there.

That is pretty much what I would do. Trade Cammalleri at the deadline and get as good a draft pick and/or prospect that you can get for him. Continue to add to the rebuild.

The only thing I would do different is trade Glencross. If he was truly so sought after by 25 other teams, then he is probably the one guy who can fetch more than what he is worth.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

At the LW spot I think it's a choice between Tanguay and Cammallari. I'd keep Cammallari as he's shown some jump since he's gotten over the lose of his buddy. The thing is it's going to be hard getting rid of Tanguay. Maybe Iginla can convince the team he signs with to pick him up.

Cammy is also in his contract-year next year, so expect him to be putting the puck in the net regularly. He also doesn't have a full NTC so he can be dealt at the deadline for a good return, probably something similar to what Iginla got.


Tanguay is terrible, has no trade value, AND has a more restrictive NTC. Signed for 3 more years the Flames have to dump him before it's too late.


Trade Tanguay, Keep Cammy, and maybe buy out Sarich. Everyone else can stay if they are signed for next year, any UFA's can walk. Simple as that

[#-3]

I hate breaking it to all of you but McGrattan is the least likely of the 4th line to stay. Jackman is signed, and the coach loves Begin.

[Ryan Coke]

Not much said about leadership, and it has been interesting who has responded since the trade deadline. I've decided Cammy is the guy showing the most leadership to the young guys so I'd be fine keeping him....maybe look at moving him at the deadline next year.

Tanguay hasn't shown much that way, so I have decided its a good time for him to move on, if we can find a taker.

Jackman I keep no problem...a big body, hardworking, will drop the mits, and has some pretty good game. I like what he brings most of the time.

I'll give Hudler another year, but nothing has impressed me much this year. I wasn't thrilled when we signed him, and he has shown exactly what I expected. A any rate, we are probably stuck with him.

So I'd keep Cammy, Stempniak, Glencross, Hudler, Jackman, Mcgratton up front (and meh to Stajan).

On D, Giordano and Wideman for vets, and probably stuck with Sarich.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by #-3

I hate breaking it to all of you but McGrattan is the least likely of the 4th line to stay. Jackman is signed, and the coach loves Begin.

McGrattan was specifically acquired midseason to fill a hole Begin and Jackman could not fill, and from what I understood, Hartley wanted a player like him.

Nothing has really changed on that front, we're not going to be any tougher next year. My guess is that Hartley would like to keep him, or a similar guy.

[Cowperson]

First and foremost, I think you want to know which veterans want to be there. Because there are some who don't want any part of this process.

A veteran skating around with a cloud of gloom over his head is someone you need to push out of a younger locker room PDQ.

Higher energy, true professionals and those who place value in leading by example and sharing their experiences with the youngsters around them are valuable to your rebuilding process.

Figure out who those guys are and move the rest.

Cowperson