Dawgs move to Okotoks. - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

browna · 06-06-2006, 07:01 PM

Just watching the CTV news, and the Calgary Dawgs are relocating...to Okotoks, starting next year. A new facility will be built there.

Resolute 14 · 06-06-2006, 10:31 PM

Very happy to hear that they will have a place to play, and Okotoks is not at all a surprise given they first tried for Aldersyde. Kinda a shame, however, as with the way the Vipers are going, Foothills is probably going to need a tennant in a year or two.

They have some renderings on their website: http://www.calgarydawgs.com/NewPound.html

Pretty much what Will Gardner showed me once when he first started talking about a new park - a modified version of Orem's ballpark. Very nice design. I'll be impressed if it is ready for opening day 2007, however.

I'm going to have to send Will an email wondering when season tickets go on sale.

Reggie Dunlop · 06-06-2006, 10:46 PM

Sounds like the set-up for a runaway success.

Not at all suprised to see the Seamans involved. Big supporters of small town roundball going back to their Saskatchewan roots.

JiriHrdina · 06-06-2006, 11:49 PM

Well a year from now when Calgary is once again without any baseball you can thank Peter Young and the Vipers for driving off a great organization like the Dawgs.

I am very happy to see them find a home. The Vipers however can bite me.

Footscray · 06-07-2006, 12:23 AM

Wow nice work Okotoks on getting the facility done - makes me wonder if Calgary business and civic leaders will ever get together and build even a small spectator park for the city's much larger soccer community. Kinda sad that they left us high and dry after they turned Mewata into a skate park and left us screwed.

snappyk · 06-07-2006, 07:02 AM

I think it's great that the Dawgs found a home close to Calgary and shame on Peter Young and the entire Vipers organization for punting this team out of Burns stadium. What is with the Vipers anyways? I have only heard Young on the radio once to promote the team this season and he only talked about the Stamps, it's like he doesn't care about them either.

ken0042 · 06-07-2006, 07:36 AM

So, if the Vipers are "AA" baseball, are the Dawgs "A"? Or are they in a different sort of league? It is still professional, right?

I ask because I am way closer to Okotoks than I am to Foothills. Might be a good chance to take in a game.

JiriHrdina · 06-07-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, if the Vipers are "AA" baseball, are the Dawgs "A"? Or are they in a different sort of league? It is still professional, right?

I ask because I am way closer to Okotoks than I am to Foothills. Might be a good chance to take in a game.

Vipers are not AA or even A ball. They are an independent league with no affiliation to major league baseball. The team is essentially full of has beens and never will be's.

The Dawgs are a team made up of college prospects from the US that come up to play ball during the summer. Many of the Dawgs alumni have been drafted.

The Dawgs are great ball and I encourage you to check it out. They are young players so they make mistakes but the games are always entertaining.

ken0042 · 06-07-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Vipers are not AA or even A ball. They are an independent league with no affiliation to major league baseball. The team is essentially full of has beens and never will be's.

Has that always been the case with the Northern League? Because I swear I remember hearing stuff when I was in Winnipeg in the lat 90's about how the Goldeyes were a AA team, and them even mentioning what the AAA and Major League team they were an affiliate for.

They even mentioned when they built CanWest Park in Winnipeg that it was built to AAA standards; even though the Goldeyes were a AA team.

But the bottom line of what you are saying is the Dawgs are a better team to go see anyways? Kinda like how the Hitmen play good hockey because it's mostly kids looking to make a name for themselves?

Resolute 14 · 06-07-2006, 09:54 AM

The quality of play in the Northern League is generally considered slightly below AA level, but it is a fully independent league, and always has been. You hear "AA" a lot as a marketing tactic. Same reason why the ECHL calls itself "AA" hockey. It gives fans - especially in the US - something to compare the team against.

CanWest Global was also built to AA specifications, as it originally seated only about 6000. The PCL only wants ballparks in the range of 9000+ these days. Though CanWest Global can be expanded to that capacity, and has already been expanded once to about 7500.

There was some talk of Winnipeg joining the PCL, however, but the team said it was happy in the NorL.

I'd call the WMBL - or at least the Alberta half of it - to be roughly equivalent to low-A ball. The Dawgs have, in the past, referred to themselves and the WMBL as a A-ball, though it is similaraly not affiliated as it is only a semi-pro league.

------------------------

It never ceases to amaze me how collossally stupid Peter Young truely is. Can you imagine the value of the land that Nexen is donating is worth alone? Nevermind individuals and the community paying for the park and utilities? If Young had been smart enough to partner with the Dawgs rather than drive them off, this park might have been built a little larger, in the city, as a new facility for both teams.

rubecube · 06-07-2006, 09:58 AM

I miss the Cannons

JiriHrdina · 06-07-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

But the bottom line of what you are saying is the Dawgs are a better team to go see anyways? Kinda like how the Hitmen play good hockey because it's mostly kids looking to make a name for themselves?

Snakeye provided a great answer for the first part of your question.

As for the 2nd - depends on what you look for I guess. I'm not objective because I have a bit of a hate on for the Vipers. One of the nice things about the Dawgs though is seeing kids come back for a 2nd year with the team and observe what strides they have made in their development. If you like that kinda thing than the Dawgs are your cup of tea.

Edit: Ultimately the key to minor league ball, particularly independent ball is the atmosphere created at the ball park. The Vipers games are so poorly attended that the atmosphere is not great. This is not entirely the Vipers' fault but certainly when they had to make a good first impression in their inaugral game they failed miserably and many fans have not given them a 2nd chance. Their marketing has also been **** poor.

Lots of minor league ball teams get real creative with promotions and fan involvement. This helps to create the atmosphere that I'm talking about. Its less about the ball itself and more about the entire experience.

Sadly the Vipers have already blown their chance as Calgarians have demonstrated now for 2 summers they are not interested in the product. Hopefully the next group to try baseball in Calgary starts off on the right foot.

Resolute 14 · 06-07-2006, 10:19 AM

Well, to be honest, the atmosphere at Dawgs games isnt much better. 300 people in an 8500 seat ballpark simply doesnt cut it. That is why this 2000 seater - in a community that can rally to the team - will be great.

The Vipers have gotten much, much better with their game day presentation, but they are still so amateurish in many respects that it simply drives fans away. The Dawgs, as the amateur team, ran their club with far more professionalism than any organization Young has ever been associated with has.

As far as the next group to try baseball goes, I think the Vipers are it for Calgary for some time. There are no other leagues to try, and if the Vipers leave, I fully expect Foothills to be demolished. If Calgary is going to see professional baseball ten years from now, we pretty much need for someone like Russ Parker to come in and save the Vipers. I would not bet on him wanting anything to do with this clusterpuck, however.

If the former Northern League commissioner, Mike Stone, had listened to Parker last year when he said he was willing to buy the team, but only if it did not begin play until this season, baseball in Calgary would be much better off for it.

Professional baseball in Calgary is on life support right now, and when it dies, Peter Young and Mike Stone will be completely responsible for it.

Thunderball · 06-07-2006, 10:40 AM

"however irresolvable disputes over field time with the struggling Vipers of the independent Northern League forced the Dawgs to suspend operations for the 2006 season."

Definitely not putting it mildly... even in a politically correct way.

But yeah, would be nice to see the soccer community get a real venue like that, seeing as McMahon is probably too big, and Foothills is a pile of trash.

toonmaster · 06-08-2006, 09:22 AM

here is a story from the local paper on the Dawgs and stadium construction

Quote:

Okotoks has agreed to play ball with the Calgary Dawgs.
On Tuesday Okotoks Mayor Bill McAlpine and Dawgs general manager John Ircandia announced the two partners had reached an agreement to build a $3 million baseball stadium in Okotoks.
The state-of-the-art facility will be built on the north side of North Railway Street across from Riverside Park on land donated to the town by Nexen Inc. Construction on the new facility is expected to begin within 45 days and be completed in time for opening day in the spring of 2007.

http://www.westernwheel.com/index.htm

KipperIsGod · 06-11-2006, 06:43 PM

I have season tickets for the Vipers,this is my second year now. I'll be supporting them for a long time. Why are you guys so upset about the Vipers kicking the Dawgs off their field? the Vipers are more professional,they should get the field..like I said,I'll be buying season tickets for the Vipers every year...and not for the dawgs :P

JiriHrdina · 06-11-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KipperIsGod

I have season tickets for the Vipers,this is my second year now. I'll be supporting them for a long time. Why are you guys so upset about the Vipers kicking the Dawgs off their field? the Vipers are more professional,they should get the field..like I said,I'll be buying season tickets for the Vipers every year...and not for the dawgs :P

Because the Vipers are not more professional. They should be since they are a higher level of ball..but they are not.

More than that though - there was a way to work it out so both sides used the facility. The Vipers chose not to explore those possibilities and opted to instead kick out an organization that had a longer and more positive reputation in the city.

So that's why.

flames_1987 · 06-11-2006, 08:27 PM

For someone that lives in Okotoks right now and has for a long time, I find this very stupid. This town just doesen't support sports teams well. We finally got a Juniour A team the highest level of hockey ever to come to town and the team was good enough to make the playoffs in the AJHL yet the crowds sucked all year. Now there hoping this town we'll support a baseball team?! If hockey didn't work, baseball sure won't

KipperIsGod · 06-11-2006, 08:53 PM

Id actually like to see a game between the Vipers against the Dawgs...I wonder who will win? it better be the Vipers :P

JiriHrdina · 06-11-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KipperIsGod

Id actually like to see a game between the Vipers against the Dawgs...I wonder who will win? it better be the Vipers :P

Considering the Vipers are pros and the Dawgs college kids - I would hope so too.