Canada's low birth rate based on social ills.... - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Cheese · 05-21-2006, 11:25 AM

...and moral ambiguities, so says the Pope.
We can be saved by turning our lives over to Christ...and having more sex which leads to larger families!

Secularism is Canadas problem!

Pope Benedict XVI said Saturday that low birth rates in Canada are the result of the "pervasive effects of secularism" and asked the country's bishops to counter the trend by preaching the truth of Christ.

Lombogirl · 05-21-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

We can be saved by turning our lives over to Christ...and having more sex which leads to larger families!

"Benedict, who has spoken out several times in favor of large families, blamed Canada's low birth rate on social ills and moral ambiguities that result from secular ideology."

What's so great about giant families? So that we have more and more people on welfare who can't afford to feed their families because they have too many damn kids?
Basically he's encouraging people to have more sex

(that is, heterosexual sex!) and fewer abortions... why can't he just say it like it is, and not throw out words like moral ambiguity and secular ideology?

Knut · 05-21-2006, 11:40 AM

Well the larger the amount of people born to a religious family....the greater the number of zealots to follow a religion... and the greater the power of the religion's leaders.... Mormons follow this to a tee.

Sylvanfan · 05-21-2006, 11:52 AM

Well I don't have kids, and its quite unlikely I ever will. Why is that? Well a few factors play into the equation. Parenting is something that takes a lot of time and energy. I'm not so sure that I'd be up to the challenge. I mean I like to be able to get my 7 and a half to 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep every night. If I don't I'm far less usefull the next day, and I don't like that. It also requires a lot of patience and understanding. I'm better than I used to be with that type of thing, but still not patient enough to deal with the way kids would test me. Than theres my wife who I think would have a real tough time dealing with the whole parenting thing, but I'd need pages to describe that.

Than of course theres the whole financial end of it. Unlike my parents before me I had to borrow extensively to buy my house. By the time I pay my mortgage, property taxes and utilities I'm out $2000 a month. So as a lowly draftsman in this world that sucks up about 60% of my monthly take home pay right there just to have a place to live. I mean am I going to downgrade to a condo after I have kids? I'd be left with very little to feed a family and do much of anything. I wouldn't want my kids growing up in a day care so only one of us could work. So I'd either have to spend 5 years going back to school to get a decent job, and lose out in a lot of income in the process, or have to work a tonne of hours after the kids came along to make ends meet. Which of course takes away my time and would result in me never seeing the kids which would lead to a bad relationship with my wife and the kids in the end. I mean there are a lot of benefits to the process and no doubt people who don't have kids will miss out on a lot of great things. But if your personality type isn't right, than having kids can be worse than not having them. I know damn well that I have the wrong type of personality for it.

I think having kids isn't something that people should be doing out of obligation. It requires a lot of thought, discussion and planning. If it's something people absolutely want than great, they'll probably make good parents. But I'll never be pressured into it out of obligation. It's not like the world is so sparsely populated that it's in danger of running out of people. If I don't have any children I'm sure I'll pay enough taxes in the process to allow a couple of young people from another part of the world thats over populated and has less oppurtuntiy for it's people to immigrate to Canada and take my place in the work force.

Azure · 05-21-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesla

Well the larger the amount of people born to a religious family....the greater the number of zealots to follow a religion... and the greater the power of the religion's leaders.... Mormons follow this to a tee.

Because the more kids they have, the higher up in heaven they get.

Had to finish it for you.

RougeUnderoos · 05-21-2006, 01:36 PM

Kind of hard to listen to this guy when he hasn't even been to Canada yet. I mean if he really means it he should jet on over here and witness first-hand the chaos caused by that gay marriage law that he alludes to.

I wonder, was there ever a time when the church folks were satisfied and weren't calling for more churchifying? I might have asked this question before.

Hemi-Cuda · 05-21-2006, 02:18 PM

the earth's human population is the largest it has ever been and continues to grow. why do we need more people? the fact that Canada has a low birthrate is a good thing IMO

i guess the pope want's every country to be like those in Africa who have way too many people than they can reasonably take care of (food, education, medical care, etc) and end up having thousands die every year due to starvation. ya that sounds like a paradise

Azure · 05-21-2006, 03:45 PM

Also, why is he worried about Canada? We're doing pretty good.

tjinaz · 05-21-2006, 03:52 PM

Actually a low birth rate is not so good. It is best to have a stable birth rate. The West is on the cusp of having all of the Baby boomers retire and who is going to pay for their benefits? Less people = less taxes = strain on the system. Also businesses will move out of an area if they do not have the talent pool to support them and with less people buying the economy of the nation shrinks. Sure you could bring in a ton of imigrants but then what happens to the culture of the Nation? It becomes less that of the natives and more that of the immigrants. Europe will have big problems with this Canada less so.

I think what the Pope is saying here is that the traditional values were more aligned with family. Now the values are much more materialistic where people will not have kids because they would take a hit in lifestyle and not be able to afford the nice cars and things they are used to having. Keeping up with the Joneses has become more important than children and family life.

CaramonLS · 05-21-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Sure you could bring in a ton of imigrants but then what happens to the culture of the Nation? It becomes less that of the natives and more that of the immigrants. Europe will have big problems with this Canada less so.

And what is wrong with that?

RougeUnderoos · 05-21-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Sure you could bring in a ton of imigrants but then what happens to the culture of the Nation? It becomes less that of the natives and more that of the immigrants. Europe will have big problems with this Canada less so.

I don't know about how things are in Arizona, but up here native culture is practically invisible.

I can understand how you might be worried about "immigrant culture" supplanting the established one but it's a different deal here for obvious reasons, the main one being that our neighbour doesn't send as many immigrants as one of yours does.

jolinar of malkshor · 05-21-2006, 11:49 PM

I think immigration is an integral part of Canada. However, as has been seen in the news (more and more) Canadians are having to give up there traditional values for those of immigrants. I think if someone chooses to come to Canada for whatever reason. They should addapt to Canadian Culture. I sure woulnt expect another culture to change for me if I moved to their country.

Is that not realistic?

Circa89 · 05-22-2006, 12:21 AM

Short term economic fallout aside, a low birthrate or stable birthrate is something that should encouraged. Overpopulation of the world is a huge, huge issue. A lot bigger problem than greenhouse gas emissions will ever be. Heres an interesting stat for you. There are more people alive on the earth today than have ever died in the history of the world!

RougeUnderoos · 05-22-2006, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

However, as has been seen in the news (more and more) Canadians are having to give up there traditional values for those of immigrants.

Can you be more specific? I'm a Canadian and I can't think of any "traditional values" I've had to give up.

Lombogirl · 05-22-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I think if someone chooses to come to Canada for whatever reason. They should addapt to Canadian Culture. I sure woulnt expect another culture to change for me if I moved to their country.

Is that not realistic?

It's not really realistic - what "Canadian culture" would you expect people to adapt to: Native, white Catholic, etc? Canada does not have one single culture, and it never has. I don't see why immigrants should change, nor should the country they are moving to.

MacDougalbry · 05-22-2006, 09:30 AM

I have absolutely nothing against immigration. However, the government has very vigorously pursued immigration for 20 years now as a means of resolving the birth rate issue, and it has not worked... in fact, I believe the average age of immigrants has increased over the period and the decline of the under-20 population has accelerated recently. There is a reason that the government has started to introduce family-friendly programs like the extension of materinty leave benefits to 12 months and the new day care (cash for tots) subsidy.

MacDougalbry · 05-22-2006, 09:33 AM

Here is an interesting graph related to this subject:

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/cens.../cda01pymd.cfm

MacDougalbry · 05-22-2006, 09:34 AM

Oops, here is the newer graph (other one was 5 years old)

http://www.statcan.ca/english/kits/animat/pyca.htm

jolinar of malkshor · 05-22-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Can you be more specific? I'm a Canadian and I can't think of any "traditional values" I've had to give up.

Well just a few off the top of my head.

Ontario was about to implement Sharia Law into its civil court system until they came to their senses.

Cultures that wear certain attire have forced many employers to change the way they want to run their business. Such as mounties having to let certain cultures were their head dress instead of a hat.

Also truck drivers have been able to not wear hardhats because they would not be able to wear their turbins.

Just a few examples of MANY

C Of Cup · 05-22-2006, 02:37 PM

I have always found it weird that there is more people in the state of New York, than there is in the entire country of Canada. Whats even weirder is Metro New York City is 19 million people, and Canada is 30 million as a nation, Toronto holding more than 25 percent of that in metro.

Canada is definitely one HUGE area, with no people.