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Old 04-28-2006, 03:18 PM   #1
Engine09
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Default Dealign with Toyota - Need Advice

I need some input, My Mother is facing a $6,000 bill that she cannot afford. Maybe someone has had past experience dealing with issues like this?


2002 Toyota Rav4

-Day of purchase, check engine light goes on
-Return to the dealer, excuses made, sensor problem, etc., light is turned off
-Check engine light continues to turn on months later, more trips made to the dealership, same excuses, basically told to ignore the light
-Light stays on
-March 2006, engine goes, broken piston, engine is toast
-Extended warranty purchased, 160,000 kms
-Vehicle has 162,000 kms
-Toyota refuses to cover anything

If the check engine light was operational, would it have warned of a possible engine breakdown?

Several attempts were made to get the light fixed. Is that enough of an excuse to take Toyota on and demand they replace the engine?

Any ideas or input would be appreciated, thanks guys!
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Old 04-28-2006, 03:29 PM   #2
Ironhorse
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If it is all documented in writing, then she has a real leg to stand on.
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Old 04-28-2006, 03:32 PM   #3
ken0042
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Date of purchase, when was that? ie was the vehicle new?

Also, I was under the impression that with OBD-II the solid check engine light means an emissions issue.
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Old 04-28-2006, 03:40 PM   #4
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There's bunch of stuff in the lemon aid guides about goodwill warranties and getting problems resolved. $20 or a trip to the library might eb well worth it.

from the website http://www.lemonaidcars.com/secret_warranties.htm
Honda and Toyota engines and transmissions—Both companies will extend free “goodwill” repairs up to 8 years.
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Old 04-28-2006, 04:06 PM   #5
I-Hate-Hulse
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Was this car purchased new or used? Has Toyota said what the cause of the piston dying was?

Last edited by I-Hate-Hulse; 04-28-2006 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 04-28-2006, 04:06 PM   #6
ricosuave
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get another opinion from another toyota dealer?

contact a lawyer?
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:19 PM   #7
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Get some advice from an independant repair shop.

Send the results of that report to head office via a registered letter indicationg if you don't get a satisfactory respone you will take them to small claims court.
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:44 PM   #8
ericschand
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Default 6 years ago, but hey...

Family member had a similar issue. What saved him was he had
lots of paperwork. Hopefully your mother kept her paperwork.
If not, she can ask for a copy from the dealer, if they cooperate,
they will have recorded her bringing the car in, what was wrong, what
the "fix" was.

Number of things learned, but the paperwork is the important one.

Dealer was Subaru, he bought one new off the lot. Couple of years
later something funny with how the transmission shifted (automatic).
Took it in. Some repair, can't remember, minor, under warranty.
Works for a bit, then more problems, like you can redline under
NORMAL driving, and it just won't shift! Took it in, same deal.

Fast forward to the warranty is about to expire. Day before, he
takes it in, says, "I had my car here lots because of transmission,
can you check to make sure it is ok, warranty about expire."
They do. Give him a blank "transmission checked" on the paperwork.
He insists they write "NO PROBLEMS FOUND" on it, and signed
by the service manager.

Well, 3 months later, same deal, won't shift, early shift, loud bump
when shifting. Takes it in. THey say, "Oh! Need a new tranny!!!!
$3500 please!" He says bull. Argues, gets nowhere.

So, he goes to Mister Transmission, they charge $2500 or so, and
replace it.

He then goes to small claims court, pays the fee to file, and serves
their lawyer. If you don't have your paperwork, you can ask the
court about how to summons one from the dealership. They have
to give it to you if it's related to your case.

They phone, and begin threatening. So he says, "I dropped the summons
to your lawyer, I will only talk to him from now on." Lawyer phones,
threatens there's no way he can win, etc, etc. He says fine, I'll take
my chances. "BTW, I have a copy of this work order and it
says that one day before warranty expire, everything was ok.
Would you like to see a copy?" Faxes it to him, along with a number
of other "transmission requires minor repair".

Lawyer phones a couple of days later, and says, "Tell you what, we'll
pay half." He says, "Nope, full cost, plus car rental, plus court fees."
Lawyer gets annoyed and says, "I'm being honest, you can't win,
there's no point." He replies, "Oh well, I'll take my chances. I
have it in writing that supposedly everything was fine. 3 months
later it's all kaput?!"

Couple of days later, it's the lawyer phones again. "Ok, ok. How
about we just pay for the tranny?" "Nope, tranny, car rental, and
court fees. All of it." "Fine, we'll take the deal, but admit no
wrong-doing." So he took it.

Second thing learned is that the warranty period is *NOT ABSOLUTE*.
See, the warranty laws say they must offer some sort of "REASONABLE
warranty period." Define reasonable. In Canada for basic electronics,
it is one year that is "reasonable". In the USA you can find 30 day
warranties that are "reasonable".

However, if you buy a product and it fails one year + 2 days, is it still
reasonable? If you answered yes, you are correct. Most, if not all,
manufacturers will honour warranties after the period has expired, as
long as it's close.

On a car, 160,000 is the "reasonable" warranty that was purchased.
Is 162,000 still reasonable? To common sense it would seem so.
However, if it was 200,000, even common sense says no. In the
above case, even a judge would says 5 years + 3 months is close
enough to the 5 years on something as major as the transmission.

There should be consumer justice group in the Alberta Justice department,
you should be able to phone them, and they will tell you most of these
things.

Long winded, but hopefully it gives you some ideas...

ers
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Old 04-29-2006, 10:30 AM   #9
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Sounds like if she took it back in and they looked at it they should have a history in their computers about service work done to the car. More than likely they would have scanned the car to see why the light was coming on and would have tried to clear the codes. The next time she would have started the car the code would have gone into the pending codes section of the cars computer. What that means is there might be something wrong but the car doesn't recognize it as a code until it trips another 6 or 7 times. If she has a paper trail then it shouldn't be an issue, which dealership did she go to?
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Old 04-30-2006, 09:44 PM   #10
Engine09
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A few more details;

-All visits to the dealer mechanic are documented, as well as the followups
-Vehicle was purchased new, 2001 model, not 2002
-Mechanic said piston broke, normal when oil has been run low (Not the case, no chance, oil light never came on either)
-Ens Lexus Toyota in Saskatoon, SK

Quote:
Get some advice from an independant repair shop.

Send the results of that report to head office via a registered letter indicationg if you don't get a satisfactory respone you will take them to small claims court.
I like that approach.

Quote:
More than likely they would have scanned the car to see why the light was coming on and would have tried to clear the codes. The next time she would have started the car the code would have gone into the pending codes section of the cars computer. What that means is there might be something wrong but the car doesn't recognize it as a code until it trips another 6 or 7 times.
Exactly what I need to know. Would the "check engine" light warn of trouble like the damn engine breaking down? I thought that's exactly what it was for.


Thanks for your input guys. My Mom is not the best at dealing with stuff like this, I just need some ideas and a starting point so I can help.
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