And the HD format war comes to the consumer.

[Bobblehead]

If you haven't been following along, there is a format war to determine what format High Definition movies are going to be sold to consumers. There are 2 formats vying for the crown.
Blu-Ray & HD-DVD

Today the first HD-DVD player available to the consumer market became available for sale, the Toshiba HD-1A and the higher end HD-X1A
Looks like BestBuy has the HD-1A on for $699.99, but not in stock until the 28th link

The interesting thing is these units will output 1080i resolution, but 3 of the HD-DVD movies released today (Million Dollar Baby, Phantom of the Opera and The Last Samauri) are all encoded at 1080p.

I find that interesting because I figured 1080p content would not be available for quite a while, especially since I believe there are relativly few HD TVs that can display 1080p.

I'm going to hold off for a while to see how things shake out, but if the rule is 'First to the market wins' then Toshiba/Microsoft should be happy.

[Mr. Ski]

Very cool tech, but I'm going to play wait and see before jumping in to either format. Someone will win out in the end, and the price will probably drop four-fold in that time as well.

In the mean time, I bought a very nice HD-upconverting DVD player just yesterday (Samsung DVD-HD860) which does 480i to 720p / 1080i over HDMI. Not as good as real 1080p but for the difference in price -- $139 vs. $699 for HD-DVD ...all the way up to $1,299! for Blu-Ray -- I'm happy with my choice for now.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I remember all too well the days at the local video store in Crowfoot, "Flicks" and seeing the VHS and Beta racks...one section for each (and the 'special' section behind swinging doors ). Sad to see it'll come down to that again.

Ultimtimately, whatever gets embraced by the market will be what I go for, technical superiority is one thing but if I can't get media for it what good is it? PS3 / Blu ray will have a huge advantage with respect to this.

Really though, I'd like to see things progress to an all digital format, no more going to video stores, just distribution via the net. Bandwidth would have to be vastly improved though.

[Hack&Lube]

I haven't used my DVD player in over a year and I probably wouldn't touch it. I can't live with movies that don't sit on my harddrive so I have full control of them anymore.

[Neeper]

My DVD and TV is pretty darn clear right now. I can't see how much more clearer this stuff can get. I am eager to find out of course

[Draug]

Dont forget that the PS3 will have a Blu-Ray DVD player.

Nobody knows what the price will be yet.... but, if Sony plans to use the PS3 as a weapon to win the format war, they'll take a huge loss on it. It will be cheaper than all the other HD-DVD players; Im guessing it will be about $500-600.

The PS3 release is what I am waiting for, before I decide what HD-DVD player to buy. I'm hoping I can get the PS3, and get a HD console for free with my HD-DVD player.

The best thing about HD-DVD? We'll finally get to see how clear true & uncompressed HD is. It will be concrete proof of how much the providers are compressing the current HDTV signals. Its awful really!

[CalgaryCowboy]

I have been following this closely for over a year and wrote up a little summary on another site http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=53 . I am going to paste hear to maybe help bring some upto speed. Personally I am going to buy the first $500CAN player (probally HD-DVD). Right now they are a rip off at a considerable upcharge from straight US exchange rate, maybe there is a limit supply for Canada.

"Just to clear up some misinformation here.

1) DVD and CD playback are not blu-ray or HD-DVD issues but of the players being produced. So far all players annouced will play and upconvert dvds only the Toshiba HD-DVD players will play CDs and none of the Blu Ray players will play cds.

2) 1080p is support by both the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD standard and all anouced film disks for both are stored at 1080p. The current tosh HD-DVD player will not output 1080p only 1080i. All anounced Blu-ray players will output 1080p. Samsung was 1080i BD but delayed release to allow inclusion of 1080p. President of Tosh said that future players might included 1080p but that since as of right now there are only a few tvs that will accept a 1080p input it was not worth the time and money to include it now and pass the price on to the customer. Before I get flamed by people, yes there are many 1080p native set but hardly any of them accept a 1080p signal from hdmi only 1080i. My view on this is that for the minority that do have a 1080p display there should not be a difference from feeding it a 1080p or 1080i signal.

3) Sony is the inventor of Blu Ray but there are many other manufactures involved so I don't see why anti Sony sentiment applies?

4) HD over compent cable. This once again is not a Blu Ray or HD-DVD issue as both specs allow it but include a token the studios can turn on to block HD over analog. Pirating over analog is not really feesible right now so most anounce releases will not have it. However not "Blockbuster" releases of new movies have been anounced so they might change thier mind on those high sales/profit releases.

My opinion(not all can be backed up by sourses): Blu Ray is the clear choice for producers, retailers and studios. It has stronger potenial copy right protection and if it wins and does't have competion the profits should be higher. Toshiba is the choice for consumers. More reasonable copy protection and lower price. However Tosh is already going to the Chinese for production and parts are relatively cheap and little margin on them. Like the present cheap DVD players that at under $100 really don't make the manufacture lots of money or the retailers. On copy protection the way I understand it both are about the same. The difference is BD+ on bluray. The HD-DVD is what it is like DVD. The present protection in the spec is what it always will be. With BD+ it allow for addition to the protection. For example if BD is cracked than BD+ allows for additional protection added to the player by either a download or included in new discs/movies that would update like a firmware update."

[Tooz]

We can only hope that more companies will come out and try to do something like this, a combo player...

http://www.cepro.com/news/industry/6708.html


Tooz

[White Doors]

I'd go for the Toshiba one. They one last time as we use their format for DVD now and they also have almost all of the non-sony aligned hollywood studios online with them. 1080p will be available on both.

[soulchoice]

Or one could wait for the LG model of HD player. They are one of few electronic companies that are going to support both formats. Best of both worlds.

[bluejays]

sorry for the ignorance, but what is the difference between 1080i and 1080p?

[White Doors]

'i' is intermittent if I recall and 'p' is progressive. Basically, the lines of resolution on an 'i' refresh every other line of resolution and then switch for the next one. progressive refreshes all lines of resolution. So basically, you are getting twice the refresh rate on a 'p' model than an 'i'
imo, 780p is better than 1080i. 1080i and 780p are broadcast now, and they think 1080p will start broadcast in a few years. most HDTD's now have 1080i and 780p capability but not 1080p.

[Bobblehead]

Actially, the 'i' stands for interlaced. Other than that, you have the gist of it.

Although I think broadcast 1080p may be while away; the volume of data the needs to be sent is pretty hefty. I'm sure it will happen, but don't expect it next year.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by White Doors

'i' is intermittent if I recall and 'p' is progressive. Basically, the lines of resolution on an 'i' refresh every other line of resolution and then switch for the next one. progressive refreshes all lines of resolution. So basically, you are getting twice the refresh rate on a 'p' model than an 'i'
imo, 780p is better than 1080i. 1080i and 780p are broadcast now, and they think 1080p will start broadcast in a few years. most HDTD's now have 1080i and 780p capability but not 1080p.

icic. So how much would say, a 60" rear projection cost with 1080p?

[ericschand]

Don't know of any outstanding deals, but here are a couple of
nice TV's.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...14&catid=23250

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...67&catid=23250

If you wait for better sales, I'm sure it will be cheaper.

Also, on the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD debate, the one thing I am waiting
to see is how the DRM issues are handled. I cannot stand having
to watch a commercial on a DVD I bought and paid for, everytime
I plug it in. Many kids DVD's are like this. You just cannot
skip the commercials. My kid wants to watch her show,
and we have to sit for 10 minutes before it starts?

I also read that with the new stuff they want to make it
so if you want to skip the 10 minutes, you can pay them
to skip the commercials. Wait a sec. I bought a DVD,
you put commercials on it, now when I want to skip the
commercials, I should pay you?

How exactly will this stop the piracy you claim you need
DRM for?

If DRM means I cannot take it and immediately watch it,
then I won't buy it. If it means I cannot lend it to a friend,
trade it for a different one, play it on my $15 DVD player,
or any such nonsense, then I won't buy it.

ers

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Actially, the 'i' stands for interlaced. Other than that, you have the gist of it.

Although I think broadcast 1080p may be while away; the volume of data the needs to be sent is pretty hefty. I'm sure it will happen, but don't expect it next year.

Yes, that's it. thanks. yeah, it looks like 780p will be the standard for a few years to come. they still haven't gotten that right actually.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by fleury

icic. So how much would say, a 60" rear projection cost with 1080p?

Not sure, but I'd get a DLP or a LDP projection instead of a rear projection. I know that the 1080p capable 52" Toshiba was about twice the price of the 780p 1080i one that I got for $2000.

[CalgaryCowboy]

Originally Posted by ericschand

Don't know of any outstanding deals, but here are a couple of
nice TV's.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...14&catid=23250

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...67&catid=23250

Both of these are 750p sets. I have the 50 Sammy model 5064 and am very happy with it. The 1080p Sammys end with 68 IRC. When I bought in Dec. the 1080p 60 inch were $4-5k. None of the ones I saw would accept a 1080p signal. Upto 50 inches the difference is very small between a 720 and 1080 at actual veiwing didstance in the super huge sets 60+ even 72 it was like night and day. The bigger the set the more benifet you get from more lines of resolution.

[White Doors]

a 1080i and a 1080p have the same amount of lines of resolution.

[Calgary Flames]

This isn't going to catch on... DVD's right now look great on my 52" HDTV. They're likely going to be expensive as hell too.

Laserdisk ptII