Johnny Rotten: Greatest Rock and Roller ever!

[Reggie Dunlop]

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees

Good for him and his mates! Defiance to the end. Hall of Fame was established by Rock critics. Couldn't expect less.

Debbie Harry turns out to be a bitch though. What's the deal about not letting the other fellers play on stage, in this their defining moment of glory?

[Displaced Flames fan]

I thought the comments of the HOF guy were almost understanding of The Sex Pistols stance. He said they could pick up their statues at the HOF in Cleveland if they want to and then smash them to bits if they want to.

It's amazing the feuds that being in a successful music group can produce. You would think, no matter what happened, that the people could swallow their pride for 15 minutes out of respoect for their fellow inductees. The one that really gets me is John Fogerty. That guy has issues.

Glad to see Black Sabbath get in. They changed things.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I thought the comments of the HOF guy were almost understanding of The Sex Pistols stance.

Yea, but there's a certain something about thumbing your nose at respectability that's quintessentially Rock and Roll.

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Glad to see Black Sabbath get in. They changed things.

Yeah, big hue and bother about them being overlooked in past years. With what Ozzy has become and his public campaigning, I can see why Rotten scoffs at the honour.

[Frank the Tank]

I don't know about Debbie being a bitch. I mean, the two guys in question sued Blondie to force them to let them back in the band in 1999. Kind of bizarre on their part. I'd tell them to F-off as well.

[habernac]

Rotten and his cronies are like the Spice Girls, all image, zero talent. They had to refuse the honour or their image would have taken a hit.

Black Sabbath should have been inducted years ago. Aerosmith gets in before them? Give me a break....

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by habernac

Rotten and his cronies are like the Spice Girls, all image, zero talent. They had to refuse the honour or their image would have taken a hit.

I have to disagree with that. Johnny Rotten has more talent in his pinky finger than the whole Spice Girls band.
Musically, Lydon did some good work with PIL.
But, the big difference is, he is a pretty smart, very opiniated, and has stuck to his anti-establishment guns his whole life.
Can't believe you would compare him to the Spice Girls. Do they even have brains? Girl Power!!!

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Can't believe you would compare him to the Spice Girls. Do they even have brains? Girl Power!!!

Sure they do. While the Pistols appealed to angry little boys, the Spice Girls appealed to frustrated little girls.

[Hakan]

Johnny Rotten the greatest rock'n'roller ever? That's a joke right?

Iggy Pop puked chunks up on stage that were more rock'n'roll than Johnny Rotten's entire life.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Johnny Rotten the greatest rock'n'roller ever? That's a joke right?

Iggy Pop puked chunks up on stage that were more rock'n'roll than Johnny Rotten's entire life.

Well its all just a matter of opinion right? Cause if we are voicing opinion, the Who as a collective would be the greatest rockers ever.

[troutman]

The Sex Pistols were not "talented" in any technical way, but they were incredibly important and influential. The punk rock movement deflated the pompous arena rockers of the 1970s:

allmusic.com:

The Sex Pistols may have only been together for two years in the late '70s, but they changed the face of popular music. Through their raw, nihilistic singles and violent performances, the band revolutionized the idea of what rock & roll could be. In England, the group was considered dangerous to the very fabric of society and was banned across the country; in America, they didn't have the same impact, but countless bands in both countries were inspired by the sheer sonic force of their music, while countless others were inspired by their independent, do-it-yourself ethics. Even if they didn't release any singles by themselves, there was an implicit independence in the way they played their music and handled their career. The band gave birth to the massive independent music underground in England and America that would soon include bands that didn't have a direct musical connection to the Sex Pistols' initial three-minute blasts of rage, but couldn't have existed without those singles.

At their final show, Lydon goaded the audience with the words, "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

The king is gone
but he's not forgotten
This is the story
of a Johnny Rotten
It's better to burn out
than it is to rust
The king is gone
but he's not forgotten.
- Neil Young

[Hakan]

Yeah no kidding punk rock returned rock'n'roll to the garage, slimey backstages, and smoke stained bars. To that, punk was hugely important.

But my beef is that the Sex Pistols really have nothing to do with that movement. They were a backstreet boys band that Malcolm McLaren created after his disastrous run as manager of the New York Dolls.

There is a long queue of bands that should make it into that hall of fame way before the Sex Pistols are even mentioned.

The Stooges, The New York Dolls, Patti Smith, Television, hell even the Dead Boys were more 'punk' than the Sex Pistols were. The Sex Pistols were image created by McLaren, image that he ripped off from the New York Dolls. The Sex Pistols weren't even into drugs before they came over to New York. Dee Dee Ramone, Johnny Thunders and the rest introduced them to the 'real' punk culture. The only thing those stupid brit-punks can claim as their own creation was spitting all over the band at a concert. Great.

And sorry Frank, I wasn't making a broad based argument about rock'n'roll through the ages, just that even for the sub-genre of punk, the Sex Pistols are low on the list.

Here's a great book on the topic:

http://tinyurl.com/qp3bn

[habernac]

there's a reason Rotten's band was called Public Image Ltd. It was all about image for him. I stand by my opinion that he's a no talent hack.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Hakan

But my beef is that the Sex Pistols really have nothing to do with that movement. They were a backstreet boys band that Malcolm McLaren created after his disastrous run as manager of the New York Dolls.

Here's a great book on the topic:

http://tinyurl.com/qp3bn

That is a great book. It is a miracle that Iggy Pop is alive today. Another book I enjoyed:

Ranters & Crowd Pleasers: Punk in Pop Music, 1977-92 (Hardcover)
by Greil Marcus

I love all of the bands that you mention. The Sex Pistols were created by McLaren much like the "backstreet boys", but to everyone's suprise they had something to say and released an explosive record. Some of the PIL records are also highly regarded by rock critics.

I mostly enjoyed Johnny Rotten because he was so funny. He has a wicked sense of humor.

[DuffMan]

Sure the Sex Pistols made lousy music. I'm not going to argue that.
But I think of Johnny Lydon, the same as I think of Jello Biafra and Henry Rollins. They all have very interesting things to say.

[Hakan]

Jello Biafra is head and shoulders above those two in regards of interesting things to say.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Johnny Rotten is a joke, he is nothing but a huge fake, image is everything to him. I've read several things that as soon as the camera's are off he isn't that reble he pretends to be.

Nothing says punk rock like appearing in a British version of "I'm a celebrity get me out of here".

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Johnny Rotten is a joke, he is nothing but a huge fake, image is everything to him. I've read several things that as soon as the camera's are off he isn't that reble he pretends to be.

Nothing says punk rock like appearing in a British version of "I'm a celebrity get me out of here".

But, that is the whole point. Rock and Roll has always been about image. The name Public Image Limted is satirical.

[Hakan]

Are you sure rock'n'roll isn't about music?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Are you sure rock'n'roll isn't about music?

Well, check-out the book by the afore-mentioned Greil Marcus. Record companies and radio stations don't care about "music".

Maybe a better way to put it is, pop music is about image, rock and roll was about rebellion.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by troutman

rock and roll was about rebellion.

My point exactly.

Shrugging off acolades from your supposed peers is the ultimate, perhaps greatest, act of Lydon's.

Tell 'em all to bugger off! You tell 'em Johnny!