Ok, Which hidden agenda issues?

[killer_carlson]

If I knew how to do a poll I would make one.

Which issues are you most afraid of. I do not want some blanket "social agenda". I want to hear specifically within the social (or environmental or fiscal or foreign affairs) sphere what you are concerned about.

Is it:

abortion
gay rights
war in iraq
native spending
child care
gun control
rolling over for the americans
etc etc

lets hear it and what part of the Harper message (or platform) causes you the concern on this issue. Some are obvious (gay marraige - which I disagree with Harper's stance as well) but others are not as evident (abortion). Is the Liberal barrage of hidden agenda or extreme right wing claims affecting your decision? If so, what would Harper have to do to ease your concerns.

This might be a better question for after the election because I do not want it to be misconstrued as an attempt by me to sway opinion into the conservative favour. I am just really curious about how a leader or a party would be able to refute these claims that are frequently based on speculation (of course I am asking you to educate me on certain issues) or conjecture.

[Coelah]

Religious belief becoming a major factor for policy making.

I'm not against religion or religious belief, but the evangelical base in the conservative party are extremists. I refuse to to play any part in putting people, who will not only willfully but gleefully push aside truth because it conflicts with their belief, into power over all of Canada. I'm afraid of idealogues.

How does Harper sway me? Simple, stand up and say that Stockwell Day and those of like-mindeness have no place in a modern, moderate Conservative party. Until he does, I have to question why and whether he supports those views.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Coelah

Religious belief becoming a major factor for policy making.

I'm not against religion or religious belief, but the evangelical base in the conservative party are extremists. I refuse to to play any part in putting people, who will not only willfully but gleefully push aside truth because it conflicts with their belief, into power over all of Canada. I'm afraid of idealogues.

How does Harper sway me? Simple, stand up and say that Stockwell Day and those of like-mindeness have no place in a modern, moderate Conservative party. Until he does, I have to question why and whether he supports those views.

Coelah, could you please explain?

I personally don't see Harper putting in Prayer in School, removing abortion laws, teaching "Intellegent Design" in classes or anything even remotely close to those things for Canada.

Gay Marriage is kind of a hot button, but I think it will stay Status Quo.

[Coelah]

Harper? No,I agree. Stockell Day? Yup.

How many in the party share Day's views? How much influence do they wield? How much pressure will they be able to exert on Harper to follow their agenda? Why do they even have a place in the party if it is moderate.

Those are questions that Harper isn't answering and the candidates that share those views are being muzzled during the campaign. I have to ask why.

If their views are so opposed to the moderate party Harper wishes to lead that they aren't allowed to express them, why are they allowed to run as conservatives?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Coelah

How does Harper sway me? Simple, stand up and say that Stockwell Day and those of like-mindeness have no place in a modern, moderate Conservative party. Until he does, I have to question why and whether he supports those views.

So the only way he can show tolerance is to be intolerant?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

So the only way he can show tolerance is to be intolerant?

Intolerance of extremism isn't a bad thing.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Coelah

Harper? No,I agree. Stockell Day? Yup.

How many in the party share Day's views? How much influence do they wield? How much pressure will they be able to exert on Harper to follow their agenda? Why do they even have a place in the party if it is moderate.

Those are questions that Harper isn't answering and the candidates that share those views are being muzzled during the campaign. I have to ask why.

If their views are so opposed to the moderate party Harper wishes to lead that they aren't allowed to express them, why are they allowed to run as conservatives?

The most he'll do is to tell those extremists to shut-up, and he has. But they will still be elected and they will still be there. Luckily the country is run by the PM and Cabinet and Harper is smarter than to let those views influence his politics even if he agrees in some fashion. They don't need to appeal only to the partisan right anymore.

[MarchHare]

I think every Christian's under an obligation to change laws to reflect biblical values.

-Darrel Reid, Conservative Party candidate from Richmond

This is the type of thing that worries me about a potential Conservative majority. Like it or not, people who come from the so-called "radical religious right" won many of the riding nominations for the Conservatives. They have been very effectively silenced by Harper during the campaign, but once they're in power, I have no doubt they will try to force their religious agenda on the rest of the country.

I think Harper personally is more of a fiscal conservative rather than a social one (although he is that too, to a certain extent), but it's the religious extremists in the party who concern me, not Harper.

[Patek23]

IMO it's a combo of both, many people have bought into the fear mongering, sure the Cons are ahead at the moment but many people I have spoken too about polotics who would regularily vote conservative are voting liberal to "avoid him (Harper) winning majority so he can't push his agenda" what they don't realize is that this kind of wide spread swinging is what will cause (my prediction) of the Liberals winning at the very end because of these kinds of voters.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

-Darrel Reid, Conservative Party candidate from Richmond

This is the type of thing that worries me about a potential Conservative majority. Like it or not, people who come from the so-called "radical religious right" won many of the riding nominations for the Conservatives. They have been very effectively silenced by Harper during the campaign, but once they're in power, I have no doubt they will try to force their religious agenda on the rest of the country.

I think Harper personally is more of a fiscal conservative rather than a social one (although he is that too, to a certain extent), but it's the religious extremists in the party who concern me, not Harper.

Just because someone is a Conservative doesn't mean they are some sort of big scary Christian. Look at Paul Martin who is a Catholic do you see him pushing for biblical laws? both sides have whackos.

[MarchHare]

Just because someone is a Conservative doesn't mean they are some sort of big scary Christian. Look at Paul Martin who is a Catholic do you see him pushing for biblical laws? both sides have whackos.

That's precisely the point. The Liberals have a proven track record of not pushing a religious agenda, even though some of their members (like Martin, as you noted) are themselves religious. On the other hand, numerous Conservative Party candidates have been quoted -- on the record -- as saying they wish to legislate their own religious morality, such as Darrel Reid whom I quoted above.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That's precisely the point. The Liberals have a proven track record of not pushing a religious agenda, even though some of their members (like Martin, as you noted) are themselves religious. On the other hand, numerous Conservative Party candidates have been quoted -- on the record -- as saying they wish to legislate their own religious morality, such as Darrel Reid whom I quoted above.

Because lets face it many (far right) conservative beliefs are similar to biblical beliefs ie. no gay marriage. That does not mean that all of a sudden if your not christian than your rights are going with the wind, if the conservatives get voted in and bring up gay marriage again it can be easily reinstated so far the gay marriage is the only socially conservative thing that the cons have even remotely hinted too and I'm fairly certain their wont be any more you'd be surprised at how much more centralized this party is than most people think.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

If I knew how to do a poll I would make one.

Which issues are you most afraid of. I do not want some blanket "social agenda". I want to hear specifically within the social (or environmental or fiscal or foreign affairs) sphere what you are concerned about.

-Religious influence in social policy
-Minority rights (gay and other)
-Foreign Policy (e.g, Iraq)
-Relation with the US (becoming their puppet)
-Enironment (Kyoto etc.)
-Day care (not gonna fix problems_
-Gun control (lack there of, but I like the harsher penalties for offenders)

Is the Liberal barrage of hidden agenda or extreme right wing claims affecting your decision? If so, what would Harper have to do to ease your concerns.

The Libs or anyone else, is not affecting my decision. Just the realities of the Conservative party that I mostly don't agree with. Harper would have to change the policies of his party to ease my concerns.

[Sparks]

Agree with all of Winsor Pilates' list.

Also, why does Harper insist on ending his speeches with "God Bless Canada?" (No joke)

[Coelah]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

So the only way he can show tolerance is to be intolerant?

Does a communist have a place in the Conservative party? How about a simple socialist? Does a seperatist have a place in the Liberal party? Does someone who's against public health care have a place in the NDP?

It's not about tolerance, it's about political viewpoints and where the party lies in the spectrum of those viewpoints. Why does Harper and the Conservative party embrace those with extreme views?

[Coelah]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The most he'll do is to tell those extremists to shut-up, and he has. But they will still be elected and they will still be there. Luckily the country is run by the PM and Cabinet and Harper is smarter than to let those views influence his politics even if he agrees in some fashion. They don't need to appeal only to the partisan right anymore.

Stockwell Day was part of Harper's shadow cabinet. Foreign Affairs critic.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Coelah

Stockwell Day was part of Harper's shadow cabinet. Foreign Affairs critic.

I voted no in the "does Harper scare you" thread, but Stockwell Day becoming Minister of Foreign Affairs is truly frightening.

Harper et al have done a good job keeping the fools quiet during this campaign so if he wins he better keep it up and Doris can watch from the cheap seats.

[Shawnski]

Day, like many Western MP's will have very little importance in the new government. If (when) the CPC is elected and has to create a cabinet, the important posts will be spread throughout the country. There are already articles easily found that discuss this. Once again, if THIS is a sticking point to voting CPC, or worrying about certain people in cabinet, then you have not done your homework.

[Regehr 2.0]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Just because someone is a Conservative doesn't mean they are some sort of big scary Christian. Look at Paul Martin who is a Catholic do you see him pushing for biblical laws? both sides have whackos.

Exactly. Sure, there are some Conservative MPs who are on the religious right, but there are also some that are also left learning (red Tories). I expect the Conservative Party to govern near the centre, because that's the only way they're gonna get the support of most Canadians

[Vulcan]

Here's my two cents on the Conservatives religious agenda. If they manage to get their Bible teaching into our science classes we're going to run into some big problems. Most kids have half a brain and will know they are being fed bull shinguard. They won't respect the teachers or the school system. I know when I went to school we had the Lord's prayer everyday and it was fine but when they start to feed the kids lies like the propoganda in the 50's and 60's we rebelled in a big way. Hopefully Harper don't get a majority and or he has enough sense not to be led by the radical right. My other fear is that he will kowtow to the Americans and we can forget about being treated fairly on the Free Trade front. Iraq, holy fata. I don't remember Harper addressing these issues in this campaign.

Should be interesting.