Hybrid draft feedback/discussion

[Jiri Hrdina]

Let's use this thread to discuss the hybrid approach, so keep the pickin' thread focused on pickin'

[MJK]

It’s been too slow. Lots of people are busy but it can go quicker than this.

[Macho0978]

I agree it has been slow. Not sure if it would have been better to start on a Sunday though or earlier on a weekend rather than a Monday

[TheScorpion]

I don't mind it being slow but it shouldn't be this slow. A lot of it boils down to GMs not doing enough legwork on potential trade talks ahead of time IMO.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't mind it being slow but it shouldn't be this slow. A lot of it boils down to GMs not doing enough legwork on potential trade talks ahead of time IMO.

I agree with this as well. There have been time where things pause, an GM either has been on discord or just made a trade, yet no pick comes in.

We have seen more trades and I personally will pick outside the 1st time for the 1st time since I have been in this league because I can pick when I can. Every year I trade picks if I can't make the zoom. I know lots do too.

It sucks that it is this slow and it seems to be a select few that are very slow, but I just don't know why we need to rush? Wouldn't we rather have all GMs participate fully?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I’ve made trades to get picks and then needed a bit of time to make the pick. But I’ve been within an hour each time

[BagoPucks]

I can go slower. All jokes aside. this is an experiment.

[simmer2]

I'm guilty of not picking faster. Two things affected me....I tried to make a bunch of trades at that time which is unrealistic to hammer out that quickly. And I got slammed at work.

I liked the format, everyone at least gets to make their picks. We made 12 picks the first day, 12 picks the next, then things really slowed down today. Maybe folks losing steam from the process...not sure.

My lesson for me is unless I have draft picks to trade, make the pick...if it involves players I'd need to have that more sorted out in advance. That and stick to my list. With more time I started second-guessing my choices.

[Ped]

The problem was always going to be getting people to make picks in a timely fashion. People have lives outside of here, and that's just the way it is - but that also affects the live draft.


It's easy to say people should have figured out their trades ahead of time, but sometimes the trade depends on whose available and whose been picked before. If you really wanted someone drafted before you pick, then you probably aren't considering trading it until that player is gone.


If you don't want to do whatever is left at the live draft, there are always other people willing to help you out with making your picks.


This has been a good trial run but I think the process could be tweaked somehow. Not a simple answer but 4 picks in a day is definitely slow.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I shared this idea earlier tonight with the commissioners but I'll share it here as well.
One of my concerns with the hybrid is the more picks we get through during the "slow draft" the more it will demotivate people from attending the live draft to finish things. So what that leads to, potentially, is GMs dumping picks for low value. Which creates an unfair advantage for teams acquiring picks for less value.

So what if we introduced a cash-out option.
We set a base value for pick worth, by round, and a GM can choose to "cash in" a pick. Instead of trading the pick to a GM, the league pays the GM for the pick, which is then skipped in the draft.

For instance:
We set a price for draft picks. GMs can have the option of "cashing in" any draft pick and the league adds cap to them. The pick is just skipped. If a team can get a better deal by trading the picks for cap - they can make the trade but it has to be at last more than the set amounts. Teams could "Cash in" a pick at any point including ahead of and during the draft. If a GM is in the 4th round, and doesn't like what's left - they can choose to take the 500K instead.

E.g.

1st round picks: 2.5M
2nd round picks: 1.5M
3rd round picks: 750K
4th round picks: 500K

A GM can still trade a pick for either other assets, or for cap, as long as it exceeds those base values (say by at least 100K or 10%).

Why I think this works?
- Puts the decision in the hands of the GM. Is the cap more valuable to them or the pick?
- Sets a basement value for picks that functions as downside protection
- injects cash into the league which can help with trading
- Provides some incentive for teams that do choose to draft, as all picks would move up, as picks are "cashed in".
- Assuming less picks are made, it would also make the supplemental draft that follows, for weaker teams, more valuable.

Thoughts?

[TheScorpion]

I think the values are too high but it's a good idea.

However I think it should only ever be available to GMs during that specific draft. Never during the season.

[Harry Lime]

Or take some of it out of the GMs hands. When their turn comes up for a pick they can make the decision to take the buy-out. Example : my pick #37 (in five turns) is forfeited in favor of the scheduled amount. If someone does not make the pick in a certain amount of time, they are automatically bought out.

You can have the one week lead up the way it is now, with the added option of taking the cash. Maybe if there is no pick in 12 hours (not including a midnight to 8AM blackout) the pick goes to cash.

On the following Saturday, if a person does not make the pick in the five minute scheduled window, they are given the forfeit. That gives an incentive to come, and a reward for those that do come to the Saturday draft (the possibility of moving up through inactivity). It would also possibly cut down on dumping, as there is not a total loss to missing a pick.

[Ped]

I would also be concerned (a little) about people taking the cash and then turning around and signing players who weren't drafted.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I shared this idea earlier tonight with the commissioners but I'll share it here as well.
One of my concerns with the hybrid is the more picks we get through during the "slow draft" the more it will demotivate people from attending the live draft to finish things. So what that leads to, potentially, is GMs dumping picks for low value. Which creates an unfair advantage for teams acquiring picks for less value.

So what if we introduced a cash-out option.
We set a base value for pick worth, by round, and a GM can choose to "cash in" a pick. Instead of trading the pick to a GM, the league pays the GM for the pick, which is then skipped in the draft.

For instance:
We set a price for draft picks. GMs can have the option of "cashing in" any draft pick and the league adds cap to them. The pick is just skipped. If a team can get a better deal by trading the picks for cap - they can make the trade but it has to be at last more than the set amounts. Teams could "Cash in" a pick at any point including ahead of and during the draft. If a GM is in the 4th round, and doesn't like what's left - they can choose to take the 500K instead.

E.g.

1st round picks: 2.5M
2nd round picks: 1.5M
3rd round picks: 750K
4th round picks: 500K

A GM can still trade a pick for either other assets, or for cap, as long as it exceeds those base values (say by at least 100K or 10%).

Why I think this works?
- Puts the decision in the hands of the GM. Is the cap more valuable to them or the pick?
- Sets a basement value for picks that functions as downside protection
- injects cash into the league which can help with trading
- Provides some incentive for teams that do choose to draft, as all picks would move up, as picks are "cashed in".
- Assuming less picks are made, it would also make the supplemental draft that follows, for weaker teams, more valuable.

Thoughts?

I like the idea and think the value is correct on the picks.

I also think most GMs will choose to keep 1sts, hyrbid draft even at its slowest is in the 2nd round now.

I would also like to add that an owner who does not pick within the 2–3-hour window (whatever time limit we decide) automatically gets the cap for the pick but is allowed 1 extension if they can communicate to the league, they are busy.

Example, simmer posted on discord he was busy at work and wouldn't pick until late morning. That kind of heads up makes it less frustrating for people waiting.

MJK is up, on a boat no cell. Heads up to the league he can't pick.

[devo22]

a few thoughts.

* there's some problems with a set time window to iron out, especially for us folks living in other parts of the world. I've been online during some ungodly hours this week, not wanting to slow things down (yet in the end, often it wasn't me who caused a delay ), but still, a man needs to sleep. That's where a 2-3 pick window can get tricky. However, I think this first round has shown that setting some form of windows might not be a bad idea.

* I think some GMs who are interested in trades need to be a bit more proactive. When I'm on the clock, a "what would you want?" message isn't ideal, especially with people unhappy about the picking speed. Happened for a couple of my picks in the 1st. Put an actual offer on the table or inquire earlier and hammer out a deal that is conditional upon how the board falls. The latter worked brilliantly when we had the live draft, there's no reason it can't happen in the hybrid draft.

* I like Jiris idea regarding setting prices for draft picks. I'd honestly set some more brackets (for example, it might make more sense to do something like picks 1-15, 16-30 etc instead of going by rounds), but I support the general idea.

* in general, I think the positives outweigh the negatives by a lot. It has been a fun experience, even though I'm one of those who will overthink things when given the time but activity is up, trade talks have been fun and I think that benefits the league. If we manage to speed things up just a little bit, I think it all works out. I've enjoyed this more than the live draft, that's for sure.

[simmer2]

Cash for picks is a good idea. I've never liked 3rd and 4th rounders, but it now provides some incentive to hold onto them.

[BagoPucks]

If we really cared about it being slow we should have set a time limit. We are trying stuff and that takes patience. People have lives and playing within the rules is what it comes down to. I think there are positives but I think some of these alternates are getting a bit too complicated and straying from the original intent. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing but I am a bit hesitant to keep adding shiny new rules.

[savemedrzaius]

Not a fan of the money for picks cash out.

People with a boatload of 4ths can just sell them and then enter the supplementary draft.


If I have a late 4th why would I use it when I can just sell it and then supplementary draft/sign players.

Or at least implement it for the following year not this year.

If you don't want your picks you can trade them but let the market decide. What are we?!? Communists? (Remember I'm in China. If I go missing it's been fun.)

[Ped]

Presumably if you're selling your picks, you're saying you don't need them, so why would you be allowed in the supplemental draft?

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Ped

Presumably if you're selling your picks, you're saying you don't need them, so why would you be allowed in the supplemental draft?

I thought we worried about people being unable to make the live draft so they dump their picks for cheap.

I don't know why someone would give their picks away for nothing. Don't really see the scenario. They'd get the best deal out there.

But yeah, bottom 4th rounders are not gonna get you much. Basically just a player taking up space on your ECHL team. So you arent going to get a lot. That's just the market. Seems weird to set an arbitrary price per pick.

If we really think a trade is out of whack we can look into it I'm sure but I just can't see it happening.

If you don't need the picks trade em?