Chemistry

[gvitaly]

It's the off-season, and we all try to predict the Flames' line combinations from time to time. I was wondering on your takes on which players get a boost from playing with each other in your eyes.

Defense
Andersson - Weegar > Hanifin
I think last year Andersson was better with Weegar, but it was a solid pairing with Hanifin as well.

Hanifin - Tanev > Andersson
Hanifin looked absolutely great with Tanev shutting everything down, and taking on a more offensive role.

Weegar - Andersson > Zadorov
Weegar looked good with any partner, but I would argue that Weegar - Tanev had similar results to Weegar - Zadorov, that's why I think Tanev is better used with another partner.

Tanev - Hanifin, Kylington, Zadorov(? - 65.8%xG this season)
Tanev just has chemstry with everyone it seems, but I didn't like him paired with Z a year ago.

Kylington - Tanev
I only liked his game with Tanev a year ago.

Zadorov - Weegar, Gilbert
Z showed good numbers with all his partners, except Stetcher, but he had much higher expected goals against with Andersson, and Stone last year.


Forwards
Forwards are harder to gauge, but here are some of our best lines last year that played more than 100mins together:
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman (67.8%xG)
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Toffoli (67.6%xG)
Pelletier - Kadri - Huberdeau (59.1xG%)
Huberdeau - Backlund - Coleman (56.9%xG)
Dube - Lindholm - Toffoli (52.3%xG)

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That's where I have a ton of trouble, because our best players have yet to develop noticeable chemistry with anyone. It could be Sutter's system, or me not noticing it. Aside from Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman I have a hard time finding a line, or a pairing that will be written in more than pencil.

Huberdeau - Pelletier, Backlund(?), Kadri(?)
Can also make a case for Lindholm, but it was a very short experiment.

Kadri - Pelletier, Huberdeau(?)
I didn't like Kadri with Dube, and Mangiapane defensively.

Mangiapane - Backlund, Coleman > Lindholm(?), Dube(?)
Mangiapane played well with just about everyone, especially after the all-star break.

Backlund - Mangiapane > Coleman > Ruzicka, Huberdeau(?), everyone else
Backlund just makes everyone better. I don't think he did enough to maximize Huberdau offensively.

Coleman - Backlund > Mangiapane > Ruzicka, Huberdeau(?)
Backlund lite.

Lindholm - Dube > Ruzicka, Mangiapane(?)
He had chemistry with Toffoli, who's gone, and had a revolving door of wingers. Dube, Ruzicka, and Mangiapane had the best results IMO.

Dube - Lindholm, Mangiapane(?)
I thought he was decent on the Lindholm line, had chemistry with Mangiapane on the PK.

Pelletier - Huberdeau > Kadri > Lindholm
Small sample size, but he looked great especially with Huberdaeu and Kadri as his line-mates.

Ruzicka - Backlund, Coleman, Lindholm
He had such an up and down season that it's hard to gauge, but he was very productive for ~20 games on the Lindholm line. He also looked good with Backlund.

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Sharangovich - I really hope he has chemistry with Huberdeau

Duehr - I think he'll have chemistry with anyone, just playing his game. Might see him with Pelletier this season.

Coronato - I see him as someone that can develop chemistry with Huberdeau, and Lindholm. Or perhaps with Kadri and Dube.

[EVERLAST]

Well as long a we aren't running a bakery as Hartley used to say and we aren't just cranking out turnovers me thinks Chemistry will develop quickly as we haven't had any HUGE changes other than bringing in Sharangovich who I think is.going to blow people away.

We had some banged up guys too that we either knew about or Sutter kept secret.

IF we managed to stay healthy I'd say with our D and Wolf in net or just the threat of Wolf making guys HAVE to play better ....ahem Mark and Vlad.....better be ready you 2 or you be gone .....well be fine.

The forwards being given more free reign is what scares me. If we are running and gunning and there's NO backcheck or.D and goal will have to be stellar.

Can we do that for 82 ? I guess we will see.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Well as long a we aren't running a bakery as Hartley used to say and we aren't just cranking out turnovers me thinks Chemistry will develop quickly as we haven't had any HUGE changes other than bringing in Sharangovich who I think is.going to blow people away.

We had some banged up guys too that we either knew about or Sutter kept secret.

IF we managed to stay healthy I'd say with our D and Wolf in net or just the threat of Wolf making guys HAVE to play better ....ahem Mark and Vlad.....better be ready you 2 or you be gone .....well be fine.

The forwards being given more free reign is what scares me. If we are running and gunning and there's NO backcheck or.D and goal will have to be stellar.

Can we do that for 82 ? I guess we will see.

This wasn't meant as a negative take. I'm just curious which players would benefit from playing with each other this year, or at least what other posters think.

I don't see the Flames being successful at playing run and gun either, that said Markstrom looked pretty good playing in VAN, while being under siege on a nightly baisis.

[Cardi C]

Your analysis of the defensive is spot on. For forwards I believe Huberdeau should be on the top line with Lindholm. Lindholm is a goal scorer and needs someone to set him up. Add Sharangovich and that could be a highly potent line.

Kadri is a good second line center and I would say give Dube a shot again with him and put Coronato here. They have grit and go to the hard areas. Defensively this could be an issue but I don’t know who else could balance this out. Maybe move Dube and Pelts between these lines depending on who’s playing well.

The third line of Backlund, Coleman and Mang is a solid two way line. Basically a 2B line. They create a lot of chances through turnovers and if Mang gets his scoring % up that’d be swell.

Pelletier Ruz and Duehr is the energy line. Good size and motors that could handle 10 minutes easily.

[FanIn80]

Huberdeau - Kadri - Pelletier looked pretty promising, and I think it was one of the most deployed combos too.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Sharangovich deserves a shot with top end talent. If he falters Mangiapane takes his place. He needs to either develop something with Huberdeau or Kadri, that would go a long way in the top 6.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Sharangovich
Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube
Coleman - Backlund - Duehr
Pelletier - Ruzicka - Coronato --> If this line is popping, give them more ice time.

Quick forward notes: Don't pair up Huberdeau and Kadri, they just don't do well.
Backlund and Coleman always paired up
Pelletier and Coronato showed some great chemistry in the very brief stint together. Try to retain that relationship.
Ruzicka and Duehr can be moved around wherever they needs to be filling.


Weegar - Andersson
Hanifin - Tanev
Kylington - Zadorov
Oesterle
^ assuming you want to give heavy 5v5 minutes to Andersson and Weegar. If not, Kylington and Zadorov shouldn't be together, and the pairings should be split up as:

Hanifin / Andersson, Zadorov / Weegar, Kylington / Tanev, Oesterle

Markstrom - 46-50 games
Vladar - 22-26 games (or until traded)
Wolf - 8-12 games

[FlamesAddiction]

Huberdeau and Kadri were generally pretty good together. I think the optimal RW for that line would be a shooter who can get pucks right on net. Someone like Shanagovich or Coronato. The line would have a player maker, and puck carrier, and a a player that likes to shoot.

[shadowlord]

I'd like to see Mang-Kadri-Dube given another chance. That line had a ton of chances at the beginning of last season, but couldn't score; which we retrospectively know was due to Mangiapane's hand injury sustained in/before training camp.

It's the best hope we have to get him going with someone other than Backlund; he's really only shown scoring success on Backlund's line.

[GioforPM]

Huberdeau and Kadri made all kinds of sense on paper - Kadri was the closest to a Bennett -type centre the Flames had, and we know what Huberdeau and Bennett did together. But for whatever reason, it didn't click for me. Kadri doesn't drive the net quite like Bennett maybe. But maybe a winger that does might help.

Whoever centres Hubderdeau, at the very least they should look to him on the power play.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Huberdeau and Kadri made all kinds of sense on paper - Kadri was the closest to a Bennett -type centre the Flames had, and we know what Huberdeau and Bennett did together. But for whatever reason, it didn't click for me. Kadri doesn't drive the net quite like Bennett maybe. But maybe a winger that does might help.

Whoever centres Hubderdeau, at the very least they should look to him on the power play.

I didn't like Huberdeau with Kadri either, they seemed to give up more than they generated. I like the Bennett analogy, that's one of the reasons I actually want to see Dube take on the task of centering Huberdeau.

Huberdeau - Dube - Sharangovich

IMO that could be a line that's a bit more sheltered, and is used to generate a ton of chances of the rush. As things stand, we have too many top 9 centers for that experiment.

Originally Posted by shadowlord

I'd like to see Mang-Kadri-Dube given another chance. That line had a ton of chances at the beginning of last season, but couldn't score; which we retrospectively know was due to Mangiapane's hand injury sustained in/before training camp.

It's the best hope we have to get him going with someone other than Backlund; he's really only shown scoring success on Backlund's line.

That line did look great in the first 5 or so games, and then they just kept getting scored on when put together. Mangiapane seemed a much better fit with Backlund and Coleman. Dube and Kadri didn't seem to read well of each other in the defensive zone.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Huberdeau - Kadri - Pelletier looked pretty promising, and I think it was one of the most deployed combos too.

It was promising, but Huberdeau was playing RW there. I don't think we'll be seeing Huberdeau play RW at any point next season. If Pelletier can play RW, not that he will get much say as a prospect, I don't mind the experiment.

Originally Posted by Cardi C

Your analysis of the defensive is spot on. For forwards I believe Huberdeau should be on the top line with Lindholm. Lindholm is a goal scorer and needs someone to set him up. Add Sharangovich and that could be a highly potent line.

Kadri is a good second line center and I would say give Dube a shot again with him and put Coronato here. They have grit and go to the hard areas. Defensively this could be an issue but I don’t know who else could balance this out. Maybe move Dube and Pelts between these lines depending on who’s playing well.

The third line of Backlund, Coleman and Mang is a solid two way line. Basically a 2B line. They create a lot of chances through turnovers and if Mang gets his scoring % up that’d be swell.

Pelletier Ruz and Duehr is the energy line. Good size and motors that could handle 10 minutes easily.

That line would be a fan favorite in an instant! The same way Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway was.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm not a huge advanced stats person, so maybe I am interpreting these the wrong way.

https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

I won't regurg the data, but it looks like the Kadri-Huberdeau combo had pretty good numbers and was one of the better combos on the team regardless of who the 3rd wheel was.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not a huge advanced stats person, so maybe I am interpreting these the wrong way.

https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

I won't regurg the data, but it looks like the Kadri-Huberdeau combo had pretty good numbers and was one of the better combos on the team regardless of who the 3rd wheel was.

You can also have a look here when you click on Line combinations:

So here's how the Kadri - Huberdeau combo did with different wingers:
Lucic - 188mins, 12GF, 7GA, +5, 49.7%xG, 52.6%CF
Pelletier - 153mins, 5GF, 7GA, -2, 59.1%xG, 62.1%CF
Mangiapane - 57mins, 1GF, 5GA, -4, 36.5%xG, 51.8%CF
Dube - 36mins, 5GF, 0GA, +5, 69.7%xG, 57.6%CF

I guess the having Lucic on that line tainted my perception. Kadri - Huberdeau was a decent pairing. It surprised me just how effective Dube was in that small sample size with them. Outscoring the opposition 5-0 in 36mins of play, why didn't we see more of that?!

[GioforPM]

Dube's a pretty decent off-wing shooter. Plus he will shoot versus pass, which is good. And of course he's one of the fastest on the team, to go with Huberdeau being slower and Kadri being middling. And he can take draws when Kadri gets thrown out. Give him a try says I. And give them the offensive zone starts.

[MrMike]

Kadri has a tough time getting a shot off with a surprise pass which Huberdeau does a lot. Don’t get me wrong I imagine it just takes time for him to get used to that and figure it out, but Huberdeau needs a “ as soon as I get this on my stick it’s getting launched” player mindset

[MrMike]

I said it before, I think it’s going to be Sharaganovich and Coronato competing for that top wing spot, whoever clicks will have a 30 goal season

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I said it before, I think it’s going to be Sharaganovich and Coronato competing for that top wing spot, whoever clicks will have a 30 goal season

I don't think either of them gets to 30 this year. They'll also need to be on PP1 from the start, and click right out of training camp in order to hit 30. 20-25 is where I see Huberdeau's opposite winger.