[Game Takes] Wings 2 Flames 1

[Bingo]

Wings 2 Flames 1

- If you only give up 8 high danger chances on the road you should win
- but don't blame Vladar he was solid
- team can't finish (nor generate enough) ... story of the season

[Erick Estrada]

This game kind of highlights the Zadorov experience in a nutshell. Highlight reel hit, undisciplined penalties, and questionable decision making on the defensive side. I like the guy but sometimes I wonder if a high risk/reward defenseman like him is a good fit for a team that doesn't score enough goals to overcome mistakes.

[Strange Brew]

Was it Pike that tweeted that 5 on 5, Flames outshot the Wings 28-7. But actually had fewer scoring chances, 6 to 5? Rather telling if true.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Was it Pike that tweeted that 5 on 5, Flames outshot the Wings 28-7. But actually had fewer scoring chances, 6 to 5? Rather telling if true.

Matches up with the eye test. At least ten of those shots came from dump ins on net

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Was it Pike that tweeted that 5 on 5, Flames outshot the Wings 28-7. But actually had fewer scoring chances, 6 to 5? Rather telling if true.

Absolutely.

51-23 in shot attempts
29-7 in shots

But digging deeper ...

19-12 in scoring chances ... so getting much closer but the Flames have more home plate shots

5-6 in high danger ... that 19-12 split above gets diced ... The Wings have a pass, rebound or tip on 6 of their 12 (50%) home plate shots. The Flames have 5 on their 19 (26%)

And as a result you get an expected five on five goal split of 1.48/1.25 and an actual five on five split of 1-1

Didn't generate anything.

[MillerTime GFG]

We never make "plays". Was there one single time last night where you thought "wow, great play"? Great cycles in the offensive zone? Connecting 3-4 passes in a row? Create 2 on 1s?


Detroit, with much less possession and fewer shots, looked more creative in our end. It's insane. I can't remember a less inspiring team to watch in a looooong time. Even in years we were well out of playoffs, we at least had some creativity. Last night was painful to watch.

[Infinit47]

The forward lines aren't working, with the exception of the Backlund line. It's time to split Huberdeau and Kadri. I'd like to see:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Pelletier
Dube-Kadri-Tofolli

Swap Pelletier/Dube around to find chemistry, or mix in Ruzicka. Do not under any circumstances move Lucic up. In fact, sit Lucic and insert Duehr.

Very frustrating how resistant Sutter is to changing things when they are clearly not working.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

The forward lines aren't working, with the exception of the Backlund line. It's time to split Huberdeau and Kadri. I'd like to see:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Pelletier
Dube-Kadri-Tofolli

Swap Pelletier/Dube around to find chemistry, or mix in Ruzicka. Do not under any circumstances move Lucic up. In fact, sit Lucic and insert Duehr.

Very frustrating how resistant Sutter is to changing things when they are clearly not working.

If you look at the lineup on day one versus now, Sutter has made a ridiculous number of changes so I don't know how you'd say he's resistant to change? In fact, I would argue he's probably tried almost every combination aside from ones that include Pelletier since he's only been up for 6 games thus far.

About the only thing left now if the team can't get going, would be to split up the third line and see if you can get fire out of Mangiapane and/or Backlund with some of the top 6 guys.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

If you look at the lineup on day one versus now, Sutter has made a ridiculous number of changes so I don't know how you'd say he's resistant to change? In fact, I would argue he's probably tried almost every combination aside from ones that include Pelletier since he's only been up for 6 games thus far.

About the only thing left now if the team can't get going, would be to split up the third line and see if you can get fire out of Mangiapane and/or Backlund with some of the top 6 guys.

Maybe it's my perception bias. But it felt like he blew the lines up after the Oilers loss and kept them that way (while underperforming) for way too long. I feel like that is where we are now. These lines have been largely consistent for awhile, and outside of the Backlund line they look like trash.

Lots of coaches make line changes within the game to get players going. Sutter seems to be more a fan of making changes on a week to week or month to month timeline. I mean, our powerplay has been horrific, and the only reason it changed last night was because Anderson was hurt. We've known all season that our powerplay wasn't working, but until there is an injury we don't see major changes.

Another example of this was Sutter refusing to play Vladar last playoffs against the Oilers despite Markstrom being terrible, which is a theme that has carried over to this year as well (but is hopefully changing now).

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Maybe it's my perception bias. But it felt like he blew the lines up after the Oilers loss and kept them that way (while underperforming) for way too long. I feel like that is where we are now. These lines have been largely consistent for awhile, and outside of the Backlund line they look like trash.

Lots of coaches make line changes within the game to get players going. Sutter seems to be more a fan of making changes on a week to week or month to month timeline. I mean, our powerplay has been horrific, and the only reason it changed last night was because Anderson was hurt. We've known all season that our powerplay wasn't working, but until there is an injury we don't see major changes.

Another example of this was Sutter refusing to play Vladar last playoffs against the Oilers despite Markstrom being terrible, which is a theme that has carried over to this year as well (but is hopefully changing now).

The Flames have 10 different forward lines with 50+ minutes on the season so he's tried other things.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames have 10 different forward lines with 50+ minutes on the season so he's tried other things.

Any idea how this would compare to other struggling teams?

Edit: reason I ask is I have no clue whether that is high or not.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames have 10 different forward lines with 50+ minutes on the season so he's tried other things.

Could you share where you snag this info, would like to poke around it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Any idea how this would compare to other struggling teams?

Edit: reason I ask is I have no clue whether that is high or not.

Nashville has 9
Minnesota has 8

Two teams near the Flames.

It's in the team reports on NaturalStatTrick

[Strange Brew]

The most basic stats tell us a lot about this team.

Huberdeau at risk of not making it to 50 points. I mean my God, no one could have possibly predicted that. That must be in the running for an NHL record, largest absolute drop in points from one season to another not attributable to injury.

Kadri at minus 10 is the biggest minus player on the team.

You lost two 40 goal scorers and replaced them with this. Coupled with a huge drop in performance of your goalies.

Maybe we should be happy the club is still in a fight for a playoff spot.

Adding at deadline would be silly unless you have identified players that have quit. In which case, the sooner they're gone, the better.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The most basic stats tell us a lot about this team.

Huberdeau at risk of not making it to 50 points. I mean my God, no one could have possibly predicted that. That must be in the running for an NHL record, largest absolute drop in points from one season to another not attributable to injury.

Kadri at minus 10 is the biggest minus player on the team.

You lost two 40 goal scorers and replaced them with this. Coupled with a huge drop in performance of your goalies.

Maybe we should be happy the club is still in a fight for a playoff spot.

Adding at deadline would be silly unless you have identified players that have quit. In which case, the sooner they're gone, the better.

Yeah exactly ... feels like a Murphy's Law year where you need to just let it expire and move on to next season.

Not sure what you'd sell even if you wanted to.

I guess Toffoli with a year to go would likely recoup what you spent on him and more ... though I can't see the team doing that.

Go with what you have see where it falls.

[neo45]

I think we’re very similar to where the Jets were last year. It’s just not working but on paper we have some nice pieces. The biggest issue is a coaching change isn’t happening here unless Darryl gets a promotion, which is scary to me

I think Kylington back will bring a great balance to the defense next season, goaltending probably can’t get worse next season, and there’s a lot of addition by subtraction that can happen up front with some expiring vet contracts.

But the smart thing to do is sell at the deadline, and definitely under no circumstances give up assets for rentals. Take the pick in a deep draft and re-evaluate in the offseason

[Toonage]

I really wonder what may be happening behind the scenes with Tre & Sutter & ownership.

Does Tre want to stay? Do they want him? Does he want Darryl there? Does Darryl want someone else in as GM? Does Darryl have ownerships ear?

That plays into the idea above about next year and the comparison to the Jets IMO

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by neo45

I think we’re very similar to where the Jets were last year. It’s just not working but on paper we have some nice pieces. The biggest issue is a coaching change isn’t happening here unless Darryl gets a promotion, which is scary to me

I think Kylington back will bring a great balance to the defense next season, goaltending probably can’t get worse next season, and there’s a lot of addition by subtraction that can happen up front with some expiring vet contracts.

But the smart thing to do is sell at the deadline, and definitely under no circumstances give up assets for rentals. Take the pick in a deep draft and re-evaluate in the offseason

The Jets are a good comparison. Within the bucket of middling teams in the NHL, there is a lot of year to year variability.
I think most of the work to re-shape this team happens in the off-season not at the deadline. I don't expect a deadline sell off, they don't have those types of pieces and/or the appetite for it.

In the off-season they really need to figure out what they need to do to put their best players in a situation to excel. Evaluate the fit between coach and players, system and players, and players and players.

The chemistry and fit isn't there. So something be changed. But I think you have to do that in the off-season.

As I've said, it's to everyone's benefit to get Huberdeau in a situation so he can rebound next season. The franchise has made the biggest commitment to him more than any other player, coach or anyone else in the organizaton.

Figure it out.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

We never make "plays". Was there one single time last night where you thought "wow, great play"? Great cycles in the offensive zone? Connecting 3-4 passes in a row? Create 2 on 1s?


Detroit, with much less possession and fewer shots, looked more creative in our end. It's insane. I can't remember a less inspiring team to watch in a looooong time. Even in years we were well out of playoffs, we at least had some creativity. Last night was painful to watch.

Not kidding my beer league shinny has more offensive imagination attached to it than the Flames offense.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I really wonder what may be happening behind the scenes with Tre & Sutter & ownership.

Does Tre want to stay? Do they want him? Does he want Darryl there? Does Darryl want someone else in as GM? Does Darryl have ownerships ear?

That plays into the idea above about next year and the comparison to the Jets IMO

Interesting question.

Hard to blame Treliving for how some of these guys are playing.

I certainly don't blame Sutter either, IMO he is getting what he can from these players. But also can't deny that when something isn't working, coaches usually get replaced.

What we don't know is what Treliving wanted to do and believed needed to be done vs. what he was told to do. And what options were available to him.


My personal guess is that Treliving and Sutter aren't a great fit and Treliving is looking to do something else. And the owners aren't going to try and stop him. He is a competent GM but a I wouldn't mind a different approach. The track record of hiring GM's around these parts is not good though, that's a concern for sure.