Buying a Laptop help please - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Phanuthier · 11-25-2005, 04:35 PM

So, I'm a student (aka. Poor) looking for a thin and light laptop, and I was wondering if I could get some more opinions and whatever on 2 I'm looking at:

iBook G4
http://www.apple.com/ibook/
The thing that I'm worried about when Apple changes their CPU to Intel, what/how many problems would arise when I need to update my software? Would there be compatabiilty issues with the CPU?

I'm leaning towards this one since its small, light and cheap. And I like that Apple’s Sudden Motion Sensor too.

Gateway MX3563 Laptop
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...99&catid=20354#
Pretty nice, but a little bigger.

Suggestions please?

Thanks!

Bobblehead · 11-25-2005, 09:13 PM

The best laptops (quality wise) are IBM Thinkpads, but they can be a bit pricy. What are you going to do in the laptop, that may help us direct you.

and Fotze is right about Memory Express, they have gotten a lot of my money

Bertuzzied · 11-26-2005, 01:34 AM

Mem express has an Acer laptop in the clearance section for $699. what a deal!

jimmy11 · 11-26-2005, 10:41 AM

I have an Apple Power Book G4, and it is absolutly amazing. I had PCs for years and I finally got the guts to switch over, and it's been a good one.

I can honestly say, I can't see myself ever buying a PC again.

I say go with the Apple.

Shazam · 11-26-2005, 11:21 AM

Memory Express, Memory Express, Memory Express. Absolutely the best deals in terms of price/value. They have on-site service, so if your laptop breaks, you can just take it there, instead of mailing it to so some place and not getting it back for months.

Phanuthier · 11-26-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

The best laptops (quality wise) are IBM Thinkpads, but they can be a bit pricy. What are you going to do in the laptop, that may help us direct you.

Well, since you asked...

Outside of internet, watching movies and typical word/excel/powerpoint... MATLAB, PSPICE, Maple...

Resolute 14 · 11-26-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

iBook G4
http://www.apple.com/ibook/
The thing that I'm worried about when Apple changes their CPU to Intel, what/how many problems would arise when I need to update my software? Would there be compatabiilty issues with the CPU?

The operating system bridges the gap between the CPU and applications. When Apple switches to Intel, they will have to rewrite their OS to talk with the new CPU, but the programs themselves will still work with the OS the same way regardless. No worries there.

Phanuthier · 11-26-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

The operating system bridges the gap between the CPU and applications. When Apple switches to Intel, they will have to rewrite their OS to talk with the new CPU, but the programs themselves will still work with the OS the same way regardless. No worries there.

I guess the concern there would be, if their OS is written for the new Intel CPU, wouldn't there be issues for updates for OS updates for the older CPU's? eg. possible bugs in the updates for older processors?

If there are no concerns... I'm leaning heavily towards the iBook right now.

kermitology · 11-26-2005, 02:08 PM

The bassist in my band bought a Dell laptop last year. His wife has an iBook and both of them say they love the Dell so much more. I guess the iBook has been really bad to her.

Personally I'd go for a PC and do a partition to run linux and windows. Isn't the core of the Mac OS unix based?

Nothing runs something like Matlab faster than linux..

Shazam · 11-26-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

The operating system bridges the gap between the CPU and applications. When Apple switches to Intel, they will have to rewrite their OS to talk with the new CPU, but the programs themselves will still work with the OS the same way regardless. No worries there.

Uh, no. Drivers, for instance, will usually use the hardware directly using kernal level routines which will be CPU specific. This will result in compatibility issues.

Since Intel and PPC CPUs are so different in the way they process assembly instructions, there can be vast performance differences as a result. Many programs will have to recompiled so that they are optimized for the x86 platform, which means that you'll have to get a new version of your program if you want to have a decent running app.

Phanuthier · 11-26-2005, 02:31 PM

I think I just puked

I was just doing my assembler assignment when I read that.

metallicat · 11-26-2005, 02:31 PM

I am actually sort of surprised to hear people praising memory express. I guess my experience of the sales assistant trying to be funny by threatening to pick a fight with my friend to steal his credit card so that he could rack up insane charges left a bad taste in my mouth. The arrogance that came from his mouth was disgusting, and running the risk of looking like a hypocrite, I wanted to jump the counter and pound the **** out of him myself.

Bertuzzied · 11-26-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I am actually sort of surprised to hear people praising memory express. I guess my experience of the sales assistant trying to be funny by threatening to pick a fight with my friend to steal his credit card so that he could rack up insane charges left a bad taste in my mouth. The arrogance that came from his mouth was disgusting, and running the risk of looking like a hypocrite, I wanted to jump the counter and pound the **** out of him myself.

Thats because you live in Edmonton. Come to a more civilized city. hehehe

Winsor_Pilates · 11-26-2005, 05:37 PM

I too am looking for a laptop, and have been checking out the 2 Phanuthier listed. Maybe we can get 2 for 1.

InTheSlot · 11-26-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

So, I'm a student (aka. Poor)

Are you freaking kidding me? You claim you're poor but somehow you're able and/or willing to shell out $1300 on a laptop?

I too am a broke college student, and have been looking to purchase a laptop for about 6-12 months now. Latley I've been contemplating spending about $5-600 on one, but even that seemed a bit high. With a lot of the sales going on now as Christmas nears, I've seen a few nice ones for about $399 so I might swoop that up. I think it was 256MB of Ram, 1.3ghz processor, and 40 gig HD.

Granted that isn't anything super spectacular as far as the specs go, but I wouldn't need it for gaming or anything. Basically just some regular every day things like e-mail, surf the web, and do some school projects on. Besides, it's not like you can really play any games on any laptop anyway. The integrated graphics just suck balls. Period.

Phanuthier · 11-26-2005, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheSlot

Are you freaking kidding me? You claim you're poor but somehow you're able and/or willing to shell out $1300 on a laptop?

I too am a broke college student, and have been looking to purchase a laptop for about 6-12 months now. Latley I've been contemplating spending about $5-600 on one, but even that seemed a bit high. With a lot of the sales going on now as Christmas nears, I've seen a few nice ones for about $399 so I might swoop that up. I think it was 256MB of Ram, 1.3ghz processor, and 40 gig HD.

Granted that isn't anything super spectacular as far as the specs go, but I wouldn't need it for gaming or anything. Basically just some regular every day things like e-mail, surf the web, and do some school projects on. Besides, it's not like you can really play any games on any laptop anyway. The integrated graphics just suck balls. Period.

...o...k...

I guess being in Electrical Engineering might be a reason.

Programming, simulations, programs to compute for math...

Resolute 14 · 11-27-2005, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazam

Uh, no. Drivers, for instance, will usually use the hardware directly using kernal level routines which will be CPU specific. This will result in compatibility issues.

Since Intel and PPC CPUs are so different in the way they process assembly instructions, there can be vast performance differences as a result. Many programs will have to recompiled so that they are optimized for the x86 platform, which means that you'll have to get a new version of your program if you want to have a decent running app.

I might have oversimplified, but you are unnecessaraly complicating the issue. From an end user's perspective, the difference between an Apple PC using an Intel CPU rather than a Motorola CPU will be no different than a Windows user running on an Intel CPU rather than AMD.

Backwards compatibility is virtually a must-have in computing today, and it will be a good long time before applications that are written post-Intel will become incompatible with PCs running the Motorola chip. Certantly longer than the lifespan of Phanuthier's prospective iBook. Until a significant majority of Apple computers are running Intel chips, any maker of applications, drivers, etc would be amazingly foolish to cut their software off from users who bought pre-Intel.

Just like you see with Windows PCs, most programs will be written with compatibility for any recent OS, and any widely used CPU.

Also, the kernel is the core of the OS, so a kernel-level application/driver is still going through the OS. The kernel itself will be different, depending on which CPU it is running on - ie when you install Windows, it will install the proper kernel and libraries to run on an Intel or AMD processor, depending on what you have.

kermitology · 11-27-2005, 11:38 AM

Snakeeye's got it.. The only time you're writing a program that is processor specific is if you're using something in that program that is processor specific. If you were writing code that uses the Intel Performance Libraries then you'd need an Intel chip to run it.

Drivers are part of the OS, you interface with the OS and let it handle the details. A USB driver is going to be the same on an AMD, MAC or Intel chip.. it's just the OS that's different.

Resolute 14 · 11-27-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I guess the concern there would be, if their OS is written for the new Intel CPU, wouldn't there be issues for updates for OS updates for the older CPU's? eg. possible bugs in the updates for older processors?

If there are no concerns... I'm leaning heavily towards the iBook right now.

Didn't see this the first time, but such issues would be a programmers problem, not a users. Any update Apple puts out for its OS will have to be compatible with either CPU, as it will be a good long time before the installed base with Intel chips becomes the dominant chipset.

At worst, it would be analogous to downloading a driver for your printer, where you have to chose the right driver for your OS. More than likely, I would bet that a new OS, or an update to an existing one would be seamless from the users perspective, as the update file would have the right coding for either CPU, and would automatically install the right files and programming for your CPU.

photon · 11-27-2005, 02:54 PM

The binaries for the new Intel based OS X come as a package with machine level code for both platforms. The stuff that doesn't exist in the x86 world such as Altivec will run in an emulator called Rosetta.

So some software will just have to be recompiled from the source code for x86 and it will run. Other software will require a significant rework of the source code to run on the Intel chips.

Quote:

I might have oversimplified, but you are unnecessaraly complicating the issue. From an end user's perspective, the difference between an Apple PC using an Intel CPU rather than a Motorola CPU will be no different than a Windows user running on an Intel CPU rather than AMD.

This is not true. While the operating system does exist between the application and the hardware (runs in "Ring 0"), that does not mean the hardware is totally abstracted out from the software.

The reason the difference between Intel and AMD is transparent is because they both have the exact same instruction set (extensions like MMX, SSE and 3DNow! notwithstanding). And most application developers have different code to deal with different extensions, though that's less of an issue now with AMD supporting SSE instructions. Incidentally the "64 bitedness" of current 64 bit processors also are extensions to the instruction set, which is why we can run normal 32 bit Windows on the PC and it runs full speed and then if we go with 64 bit Windows we get the benefit.

Anyway as I mentioned in the case of your example of OSX running on Intel or Motorola CPUs (current Macs use IBM CPUs BTW) isn't accurate; software will need to be recompiled and have a totally different binary because the machine code is totally different.

Where you example is true is in the case of an application developed in a language that uses a virtual machine such as Java, .NET, Python, etc... Then the hardware is 100% abstracted out of the application. Mind you the virtual machine still needs to be created in the environment of the target processor's instruction set...

EDIT: Oops and yes, this is 100% the programmers problem. Each software vendor will be responsible for releasing updated binaries for their application on the new OSX/Intel platform.

As to the laptop:

I've had friends who really liked their Dells:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/s...ghlight=laptop

Thinkpads are very nice as well.